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 Forum index » Modding Central » Tiberian Sun Editing Forum
Vanilla TS campaign messed up
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Spectracus
Vehicle Driver


Joined: 26 Apr 2013

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:53 am    Post subject:   Vanilla TS campaign messed up Reply with quote

Hey people. I didn't find anything helpful on this so i'll just post this here.

So after some 3 years of break from modding TS, I decided to start doing this again. I've forgotten how most of these things work so basically had to relearn quite a bit of things. Anyhow, can anyone tell why original campaigns' missions are not obeying some triggers? I haven't touched the missions themselves in any way except for changing some side-specific units for Nod in terms of light infantry, engineers, mcvs, refineries + some other stuff and they seem to work correctly in campaigns as well. I have encountered minor oddities to major annoyments from gdi1a not spawning meteors at the eastern bridge, gdi2a not spawning orca transports or Nod sams at start (latter was somehow fixed by adding my new factory-side to all maps manually, screw logic), gdi 3a didn't end due to the train not following it's last waypoint off the map to trigger win, and also got stuck getting to north-eastern bridge and not having the map expand further (3 light infantries stood behind, others boarded the train), 3b worked otherwise correctly but didn't show the train sequence it was supposed to in the beginning... and for the last straw 5a says "mission accomplished" immideately at the start. I've got no idea what causes some triggers not to function as they are untouched by me and also seem to be set correctly like intended from final sun. I'm frustrated at this point to have nothing work except for skirmish, as i'd like to play through the campaigns again. It's something to do with my rules.ini though as removing it rectified the problem, at least the one in 5a(though i'm not sure if the first Nod outpost was supposed to attack the fiends west of their location, but they did anyway, maybe related to reveal map trigger for testing purposes). I'm using TS client.

Oh and by the way, nice to see this community still going well in 2018.  Smile

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

several possibilities
-you've added new houses (what people call sides) to rules.ini, thus ruining the order of the houses in the SP maps
-you've set Paranoid=no in rules.ini (this causes strange sideeffects like one of the Cabal houses being allied to you in the last Firestorm Nod mission)
-BuildingTypes list reordered, thus broke triggers and scripts that point to certain buildings
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Spectracus
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Joined: 26 Apr 2013

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had created a new factory type for GDI, and made GDIA for it. I placed it after Special so it shouldn't disturb the order, right? [Sides] is untouched. Additionally I edited some original entries in buildingtypes but reordered nor removed none. I checked art/ai.ini for correct names also and they are correct. Added all new buildings to the end of BuildingTypes list.

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spectracus wrote:
I had created a new factory type for GDI, and made GDIA for it. I placed it after Special so it shouldn't disturb the order, right?

no.
(some of) the maps themselves have multiple new houses added for the special mission specific teams. e.g. 2 different Nods for 2 different independent working Nod bases.

Your newly added house changes the list of houses in the map and thus messes up the triggers.
You would have to edit the maps, include your new house and then adjust (make sure) all triggers/teams/scripts etc to make them point again to the correct house. (not really sure if editing the triggers is necessary, but inserting your new house(s) is necessary)
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Spectracus
Vehicle Driver


Joined: 26 Apr 2013

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe i'm blind but i don't see anything's changed within any triggers on any map. Everything seems to be in order, fe. 5a's only win condition is Destroyed, buildings, all for house Array. I did set GDIA manually for every map, without it it'd crash upon loading on most missions.
Also it seems to be displayed at the end of Houses list there judging from triggers list.

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E1 Elite
Tiberian Beast


Joined: 28 May 2013

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can have multiple copies of TS Client, one for vanilla campaign and
one for modding etc. Even small changes in rules.ini can affect missions.

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Spectracus
Vehicle Driver


Joined: 26 Apr 2013

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah well, i kind of want to play the campaign with my mod turned on. It's not a massive one in any way, more like an improvement, mostly image replacements for some units and changes in values here and there. Besides, i know for a fact that the campaigns should work with my mod because i have done it twice before with this additional house. I just don't understand what i'm supposed to do to fix this. I actually have a vague memory of going through with this certain problem before back then, and got it to work somehow.

Could someone take a look at my mod first-hand, try the GDI campaign? Been in a dead end for 4 days now. Confused


mod.zip
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E1 Elite
Tiberian Beast


Joined: 28 May 2013

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When PROC is removed what happens to all the refineries in the maps?
If component tower is made non-buildable and its upgrades modified,
what happens to all GDI base defenses? Moving mammoth mk2 to a
different house.

These are not small changes to keep the missions un-affected.

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Spectracus
Vehicle Driver


Joined: 26 Apr 2013

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If i didn't replace those structures using a notepad in every map, they'd just appear as a 1x1 invisible tile that says MISSING in final sun or just plain invisible buildings ingame. The AI is able to use the MkII correctly, at least in skirmish. I don't think it's used in a production trigger in campaign, so it should be safe. Like I said, everything works like a charm in skirmish mode.

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skirmish/multiplayer is not the same as singleplayer
The AI is completely different as well as many game logics.
e.g.
-in multiplayer you can't add new houses to a map and have them play as another independent faction
-several house specific trigger work in singleplayer only
-the AI in multiplayer does everything automatically based on ai.ini and rules.ini [AI] settings,
in singleplayer the AI does nothing automatic on its own and only does what is set in the map triggers/teams/scripts etc
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5 GDI, 5 Nod, 1 Mutant, 1 Scrin unit, 1 GDI building

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^Rampastein
Rampastring


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
-in singleplayer the AI does nothing automatic on its own and only does what is set in the map triggers/teams/scripts etc


It is possible to make the AI follow AI.ini in singleplayer missions, and most missions actually do this instead of coding their own teams and other stuff. ( [Basic] IgnoreGlobalAITriggers=false )

When it comes to various Rules.ini keys and various other logics (base building, automatic fire-sale etc.) there's a lot of differences though.
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Spectracus
Vehicle Driver


Joined: 26 Apr 2013

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand the difference of automatic and mission specific triggers. Thing is, i don't know what to look for when looking at the maps' triggers because like i said, everything seems to be in place, all triggers point to right houses and there's no reason for 5a to end prematurely. I must admit i'm no experienced mapper and probably won't see the culprit if it's really some wrong pointers in triggers. That's why i'm asking someone with more experience in mapping to look what's screwing up some of the missions so me and others who would experience this problem know what to look for. If it's triggers, then i'm just
blind as a bat here. I don't have a single clue what to look for in 1a with the meteors not destroying the bridge (even if it's not a serious issue, but as an example)...

Still, i've succesfully gotten through the campaign two times with this minimod on before, and if i recall right, i had even more changes in form of new units back then, and it worked. So i know there's a way to play the campaign with my alternate factory-house on. Even more so when it only affects one building and unit (GADROP and MkII).

Ugh... This is starting to give me way more headache than it really should.  Razz

As for 3b, just figured out that the missing sequence with the train approaching Nod base and getting destroyed was because i skipped 3a with an instant win trigger, so the global value for it didn't obviously get set to on (because the train didn't leave it's station).

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E1 Elite
Tiberian Beast


Joined: 28 May 2013

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As was already mentioned by LKO, you added a house in rules so the trigger
index to a house changes. In 5a map, Array house is checked for existing
buildings but instead it check for a different house now.

[Events]
091E1CD0=1,10,0,4

now should be

[Events]
091E1CD0=1,10,0,5

Such instances will be plenty, so it is hard work to correct every map for the
little changes made in rules.ini.

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Spectracus
Vehicle Driver


Joined: 26 Apr 2013

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, that sucks. I suppose i can't just give the new house an index of 99, think it reverts to 04? Is there any other workaround than to go through all maps with a magnifying glass? Rolling Eyes

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Bittah Commander
Defense Minister


Joined: 21 May 2003
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you added GDIA only as for work-around to make sure the units of the new factory can't be built from the regular GDI War Factory, the best solution would be to just ditch GDIA and use an existing house like Neutral or Special for this work-around instead.
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Spectracus
Vehicle Driver


Joined: 26 Apr 2013

PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Setting Neutral or Special as the factory owner didn't even cross my mind... But looks like that fixed everything. A whole lot of thanks to you Bittah!

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