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 Forum index » Modding Central » Red Alert 2 Editing Forum » Ares (Unofficial Forum)
Ares Broke Carryalls?
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AnimalMan
Soldier


Joined: 06 Feb 2018

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:41 am    Post subject:   Ares Broke Carryalls? Reply with quote

Trying to get carryalls working as it used to, Giving a [SHAD] (nighthawk) based unit the tag Carryall=yes Carryall.SizeLimit=-1 and it doesn't work. The unit needs to be in the aircraft list, which forces it to use the airbase. And even then - it is not picking up my tanks. Following Ares Documentation for implementation. But unlike most other mechanics they have introduced - this one seems broke.


Does anybody know anything about this? Or am I missing something?


Code:
Carryall=yes
Carryall.SizeLimit=-1
AirportBound=no
Dock=

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Mig Eater
General


Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: Eindhoven

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carryalls have always needed to be an aircraft type since their introduced in TS. I also have Carryalls working without any problems in my Ares mod using the same code you have posted. You must have done something else wrong, post your full code so we can check it for you.
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4StarGeneral
Commander


Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Constant Flux

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Dock= tag shouldn't even be there, but also since you gave it to the nighthawk it doesn't work because the nighthawk is a JumpJet unit. It needs to have the Flying locomotor. Passengers doesn't really work with it either, though it can have them.

Code:
[SHAD]
JumpJet=no
Carryall=yes
Carryall.SizeLimit=-1
AirportBound=no
Locomotor={4A582746-9839-11d1-B709-00A024DDAFD1} ;flying

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wrong forum. this is not minecraft.


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AnimalMan
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Joined: 06 Feb 2018

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did the trick


+ I assume

Factory.ExplicitOnly=

this works to divert it Smile

Thanks guys

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AnimalMan
Soldier


Joined: 06 Feb 2018

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The carryall logic works now, but the carry won't build from the factory. the gaweap - it always builds to a dock.

Code:
[CARRYALL]
UIName=Name:HIND
Name=Hind Transport
Prerequisite=GAWEAP
Primary=BlackHawkCannon
Strength=175
Category=Support
JumpJet=no
Armor=light
TechLevel=7
Sight=7
RadarInvisible=yes
Landable=yes
PipScale=Passengers
;Passengers=5
Speed=14
PitchSpeed=1.1
JumpjetSpeed=30 ;params not defined use defaults (old globals way up top)
JumpjetClimb=10
JumpjetCrash=40 ; Climb, but down
JumpJetAccel=12
JumpJetTurnRate=6
JumpjetHeight=500
JumpjetWobbles=.01
JumpjetDeviation=1
Owner=British,French,Germans,Americans,Alliance,Canada,Australia,SouthAfrica
RequiredHouses=SouthAfrica
Cost=1000
Points=15
ROT=5
Crewed=yes
ConsideredAircraft=yes
Explosion=TWLT070,S_BANG48,S_BRNL58,S_CLSN58,S_TUMU60
MaxDebris=3
VoiceSelect=BlackOpsSelect
VoiceMove=BlackOpsMove
VoiceAttack=BlackOpsAttackCommand
VoiceCrashing=BlackOpsVoiceDie
DieSound=
CrashingSound=BlackOpsDie
ImpactLandSound=GenAircraftCrash
Locomotor={4A582746-9839-11d1-B709-00A024DDAFD1} ;flying
;Locomotor={92612C46-F71F-11d1-AC9F-006008055BB5} ;jumpjet
MovementZone=Fly
DamageParticleSystems=SparkSys,SmallGreySSys
;AuxSound1=BlackOpsTakeOff   ;Taking off
;AuxSound2=BlackOpsLanding   ;Landing
ThreatPosed=0
SpecialThreatValue=1
VeteranAbilities=STRONGER,FIREPOWER,SIGHT,FASTER
EliteAbilities=SELF_HEAL,STRONGER,FIREPOWER,ROF
Size=15
SizeLimit=2
HoverAttack=yes
;OmniFire=yes ;GEF moved to weapon
AllowedToStartInMultiplayer=yes
Crashable=yes
CanPassiveAquire=no ; Won't try to pick up own targets
SpeedType=Hover
MoveSound=BlackOpsMoveLoop
EnterTransportSound=EnterTransport
LeaveTransportSound=ExitTransport
ElitePrimary=BlackHawkCannonE
PreventAttackMove=yes
;Bombable=no
TooBigToFitUnderBridge=true
Trainable=yes
Bunkerable=no; Units default to yes, others default to no
Carryall=yes
Carryall.SizeLimit=-1
AirportBound=no
Builtat=GAWEAP

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4StarGeneral
Commander


Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Constant Flux

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's because it's an AircraftType now, so it'll only be built at Factory=AircraftType regardless if you have BuiltAt, if your BuiltAt= structure doesn't create AircraftType.

Testing all this, I find Carryall to be buggy as it is. It can't handle a weapon as on killing a target it will fly to the edge of the map in a random direction. Nor can it seem to handle landing correctly either, where it just hovers over the ground like an idiot until you tell it to land somewhere else. Oh and like TS aircraft it also won't reveal the map where it lands and cannot move to shroud. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I've been removing feature after feature and no fix is in sight.
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wrong forum. this is not minecraft.


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cxtian39
Sergeant


Joined: 11 Feb 2016
Location: The United States of China

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cross-types building is not entirely impossible.
Unit-delivery SW is omnipotent
https://ppmforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=565472
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AnimalMan
Soldier


Joined: 06 Feb 2018

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I told you, it feels like carryalls are broken.

I remember before ares - you could activate this logic really simply. And yes it didn't have fancy cursors and stuff - just that big no entry cursor - but it still worked really well. ANd you could build them from the factory - I am +100% certain of it.

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AnimalMan
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Joined: 06 Feb 2018

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aww that really sucks there is no solution.


Ares released an update in Jan right?
So ares is still going?

I hope ares either fix or expand carryalls, maybe even include carryall - harvester logic from dune 2000.  But most importantly, allow vehicles types with - consideredaircraft=yes - to be carryall=yes.

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have internal transports. Why would you want the inconvenient carryall if the internal transports offer much more modding flexibility and better handling ingame?

I would love to get rid of carryalls in TS and have working dropships instead.
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AnimalMan
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Joined: 06 Feb 2018

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I would love to get rid of carryalls in TS and have working dropships instead.


An amphibious transport with flying locomotor? Smile
Good Idea.

But it is a shame to loose the tank below the chopper effect, and unloading is much slower and more dangerous.


I am going to try to suggest this logic Vehicletypes with ConsideredAircraft=Yes taking on Carryall=Yes l- to the official ares site. And mention the Dune2000 carryall behaviours.

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AlexB
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Joined: 31 May 2010
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnimalMan wrote:
I remember before ares - you could activate this logic really simply. And yes it didn't have fancy cursors and stuff - just that big no entry cursor - but it still worked really well. ANd you could build them from the factory - I am +100% certain of it.

Unfortunately, being 100% certain isn't the same as being right. The Carryall=yes setting is only ever read for AircraftTypes both in YR and TS, thus no UnitType ever could have been made into a Carryall. AircraftTypes cannot build from a Factory=UnitType building, so this is also improbable at least. Thus, Ares must have broken a well working feature by no longer supporting things that were not possible even without Ares.

AnimalMan wrote:
Ares released an update in Jan right?
So ares is still going?

I hope ares either fix or expand carryalls, maybe even include carryall - harvester logic from dune 2000.  But most importantly, allow vehicles types with - consideredaircraft=yes - to be carryall=yes.

Yeah, Ares' latest release is still pretty new.

Carryalls aren't broken, though: Both the game's rulesmd.ini and the Ares documentation state that only AircraftTypes can be Carryalls. They do what they were designed to do (by the TS devs), and Ares doesn't change that. It only expands a few things, and adds support for cursors and ships (which TS didn't have).

I concur, they might not have all the features that would be good to have. Weapons make a Carryall just drop its cargo like a paradrop plane (that's how the engine has been doing this for ages (see RA1's paradrop / parabombs). Shroud would be another thing, which might be a balance issue. Also automatic harvester transport would be cool.

UnitTypes don't have a lot of functions that would be needed to add this (this involves unit movement, drawing, and cursors at least). I don't think that's gonna happen. Would be some effort, and the use cases are pretty limited.
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Crimsonum
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Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Location: Fineland

PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlexB wrote:
I concur, they might not have all the features that would be good to have. Weapons make a Carryall just drop its cargo like a paradrop plane (that's how the engine has been doing this for ages (see RA1's paradrop / parabombs). Shroud would be another thing, which might be a balance issue. Also automatic harvester transport would be cool.


I assume this was either fixed in Ares or was never a problem in RA2 to begin with, but in TS, if the carryall paradrops a unit, the unit does not land correctly on the cell, and instead lands at a dozen pixels above the cell center. The unit will work just like before, but it will remain in this awkward position until it's destroyed - there's no way to return it to normal. IIRC voxel shadows still get drawn in the correct position, but I'm not entirely certain about this.
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A bug in TS, no clue if still present in RA2/Ares, when a unit is dropped by the carryall, that dropped unit is completely inactive. It doesn't respond when being fired upon and doesn't engage any enemy units.
Only when you give the dropped unit a move command, you get it out of it's passive state.
That's why i would prefer internal transports, as they release the units in normal guard mode.
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Tuc0
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Joined: 26 Sep 2016
Location: Slovakia

PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
A bug in TS, no clue if still present in RA2/Ares, when a unit is dropped by the carryall, that dropped unit is completely inactive.

But for example harvester continues to harvest after dropped. Dropped unit stance seems to be close to EMP effect behavior, could work also for hunt mission. Too bad that carried unit offset is misplaced and not reverted back after dropped.
Also it is quite funny that if "Parachute= " under AudioVisual is set to non-existing anim, units will fall with full gravity Smile

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AnimalMan
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Joined: 06 Feb 2018

PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess the carryalls are not broke as such - but if they cannot function as vehicles, and must rely on an airpad - cannot fire weapons very well or path find and other such things - then to me its true lack of usage and customization breaks its purpose.

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OmegaBolt
President


Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Location: York, England

PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's what carryalls are and always have been.
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Graion Dilach
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Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyörgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crimsonum wrote:
I assume this was either fixed in Ares or was never a problem in RA2 to begin with, but in TS, if the carryall paradrops a unit, the unit does not land correctly on the cell, and instead lands at a dozen pixels above the cell center. The unit will work just like before, but it will remain in this awkward position until it's destroyed - there's no way to return it to normal. IIRC voxel shadows still get drawn in the correct position, but I'm not entirely certain about this.


http://ares-developers.github.io/Ares-docs/bugfixes/type2/vehicleparadropoffset.html
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AlexB
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Joined: 31 May 2010
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crimsonum: I can imagine where that's coming from, if it is 14 pixels. It's because the unit is still marked as being on the Carryall. Want this fixed?

Lin Kuei Ominae: Not sure about that one. Dropped as in para-dropped or as in released normally from the Carryall? I see no mission being set. That would most likely also be fixable, if this is the issue.

Tuc0: There was a fix in Ares to correct the cell offset. If there is no parachute, you'll get the NoParachuteMaxFallRate instead of ParachuteMaxFallRate.

AnimalMan: You gotta complain to WW about that. They designed them to be support aircraft only. Sometimes it's just not possible to combine logics, so why code a complete Carryall system for units or aircraft with optional weapon support and find ways to make differerent logics interact correctly, when TS only had that one Carryall that doesn't need any of that?
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AnimalMan
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Advanced Carryalls were an Emperor Battle for Dune Feature I think

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AnimalMan
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Joined: 06 Feb 2018

PostPosted: Yesterday, at 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remember guys, the purpose of ares was to restore non-functioning logic, and remove hardcoding on other logics to allow modders more freedom.

I dont feel i should have reiterate the point that doing this would most definately be a useful mechancic, as i bet you would see every mod with a factory produced carryall.

But i understand it may involve the creation of new logic from the ground up that may be out of ares capabilities and/or will power.

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AlexB
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PostPosted: Yesterday, at 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

True, and Ares did lift a few restrictions, not just for Carryalls.

I think what you mean is pretty clear. I would like to have Carryalls flying over the map, picking up harvesters and so on. Also carrying units to the Service Depot if necessary. Maybe even support for getting a free harvester like you did in Dune 2000 (at least).

One issue you haven't named is time. If this feature is done, another feature has to be dropped, because time is limited. Also, you need a dev with will power, time, and no higher priorities. Getting all the features would be convenient, but it's not realistic, because eventually someone has to do the work.
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AnimalMan
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PostPosted: Yesterday, at 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If they made it possible to fully remake Dune2000 with worms and everything in ra2 engine.

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