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 Forum index » Featured Projects » Twisted Insurrection » Your Input
Game crashes, frozen units & more issues/questions
Moderators: Aro, Crimsonum, ErastusMercy, Lin Kuei Ominae, ^Rampastein
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Frank
Civilian


Joined: 05 Mar 2017

PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:47 am    Post subject:  Game crashes, frozen units & more issues/questions Reply with quote

I've just started playing TI again, and I'm running into several bugs and other issues, so I thought I should report them.

The game completely freezes during a skirmish game on the map The Finale (see first attached savegame). It doesn't always happen at the same moment, but if you play this savegame for a few minutes, it will invariably crash. It is similar to the crashes on Nod mission 14, where this issue still occurs, and it also occasionally happens on GDI mission 10 when the Ion Storm ends.
Also, if you activate the Firestorm Defense in this savegame, it will last indefinitely, it won't power down after a while like it does in original TS. Is it supposed to work like that?

Another issue on many skirmish maps is Harvesters freezing. The second attachment is a savegame on Delta City, the Harvesters in the upper left field won't return to the refinery but freeze in place once they're full.
Also in this Delta City savegame: units get stuck on the destroyed bridge north of my base, there are a ranger and a scatterpack I can't move away anymore.

Tiberium Floaters behave weirdly on some maps, they won't attack and kill units, but just send out strange flashes that don't seem to harm anyone. I noticed this has been fixed on some maps though, when compared with previous TI versions, like GDI mission 15, where it is impossible to save the armed civilians now.

In many missions, units won't auto-fire on visceroids if they are newly created by infantry dying in tiberium. This can be very annoying and requires a lot of micro-management, especially in missions like GDI 9. In GDI 10, this can work in your advantage, as the visceroids will attack Nod and even other tiberium lifeforms without them fighting back.

I believe I already saw this somewhere else, but just to be sure: Globotech produces Nod units in GDI missions 12 and 13.

Snipers will not automatically fire on vehicles, but they will fire on some infantry they can't deal damage against, like cyborgs and exo-suits. This can greatly reduce their effectivity when you get regularly attacked by mixed infantry groups.

GDI mission 7: the unit AI of my commando is weird. I can outrange laser turrets, but after firing one salvo, my commando will then walk forward into the laser's range for some reason. This makes it very frustrating to take them out, I constantly have to walk back to get healed after each shot.
Similarly, Scatterpacks will often start walking in random directions when firing on air units.

Furthermore, and this is more a balancing issue, I have noticed the AI doesn't need tech buildings to build certain units in skirmish gmes, at least on Hard AI. This can get very unbalanced, because the Nod AI can build Incinerators as soon as they build a Hand of Nod, and these are really strong in the early game when you only have infantry. I think this is the reason why GDI AIs always do so much worse on skirmish maps, when going up against Nod AIs.

Nod mission 11: it always feels a little cheap to me that you can complete the mission just by killing the Cyborg Paladin, instead of attacking a heavily defended base to capture the EMP cannon. I always take the EMP route out of sportsmanship, but it's a bit underwhelming that you can also just march back to base and kill the Paladin.

Also a final question, just to be sure: is your initial objective in GDI mission 15, finding the abandoned Globotech outpost without being detected by Nod, supposed to be impossible? I've played it several times now, and I never found a way to do it, so now I just send one of my rangers deliberately into the Nod base every time I play it. I noticed there is a destroyable cliff in the southwest corner of the city, near the base of the destroyed bridge, but this doesn't lead anywhere. Was this maybe supposed to be the route to the outpost?

And to conclude: this mod is absolutely awesome and thanks to all of you guys for creating it.


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ApolloTD
Commander


Joined: 19 Nov 2003

PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Game crashes, frozen units & more issues/questions Reply with quote

Frank wrote:

Also, if you activate the Firestorm Defense in this savegame, it will last indefinitely, it won't power down after a while like it does in original TS. Is it supposed to work like that?

In many missions, units won't auto-fire on visceroids if they are newly created by infantry dying in tiberium. This can be very annoying and requires a lot of micro-management, especially in missions like GDI 9. In GDI 10, this can work in your advantage, as the visceroids will attack Nod and even other tiberium lifeforms without them fighting back.


Yes intentional, it is more 'useful' than the original Firestorm that needed babysitting thus you could say it is enhanced, now it will only run almost indefinitely when it is not deflecting attacks, once it deflects attacks it will quickly lose charge and eventually collapse, you only see this when it deflects.

As for viceroids, this issue goes to original game since newly created visceroids are assigned neutral owner, same as used by civilians, thus it will not be automatically picked as threat and this can't be sorted out without making every civilian target autofired on which is not ideal solution either if mission had you put into defending civilians and your units would open fire on them on their own and you could lose mission as result.

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^Rampastein
Rampastring


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Location: Gensokyo

PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Game crashes, frozen units & more issues/questions Reply with quote

ApolloTD wrote:
As for viceroids, this issue goes to original game since newly created visceroids are assigned neutral owner, same as used by civilians, thus it will not be automatically picked as threat and this can't be sorted out without making every civilian target autofired on which is not ideal solution either if mission had you put into defending civilians and your units would open fire on them on their own and you could lose mission as result.


In singleplayer missions you can just create a new house for all civilian stuff, leaving Neutral for visceroids only. That being said, doing that change for all existing missions could take some time and might not be worth it.
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Frank
Civilian


Joined: 05 Mar 2017

PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 4:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Game crashes, frozen units & more issues/questions Reply with quote

^Rampastein wrote:
ApolloTD wrote:
As for viceroids, this issue goes to original game since newly created visceroids are assigned neutral owner, same as used by civilians, thus it will not be automatically picked as threat and this can't be sorted out without making every civilian target autofired on which is not ideal solution either if mission had you put into defending civilians and your units would open fire on them on their own and you could lose mission as result.


In singleplayer missions you can just create a new house for all civilian stuff, leaving Neutral for visceroids only. That being said, doing that change for all existing missions could take some time and might not be worth it.


Maybe it is also possible to just do this for a few missions with lots of Tiberium where it really is an issue, like GDI 9 and GDI 10. That requires less work.

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Crimsonum
Seth


Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Location: Fineland

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:20 am    Post subject: Re: Game crashes, frozen units & more issues/questions Reply with quote

Hello Frank, and thanks for the thorough feedback. Fortunately, some of these issues have already been fixed. The next release is currently undergoing internal testing but it should be released soon.

Frank wrote:
The game completely freezes during a skirmish game on the map The Finale (see first attached savegame). It doesn't always happen at the same moment, but if you play this savegame for a few minutes, it will invariably crash. It is similar to the crashes on Nod mission 14, where this issue still occurs, and it also occasionally happens on GDI mission 10 when the Ion Storm ends.


Unfortunately, without proper leads the cause of these freezes is impossible to hunt down. Nod mission 14 in particular has suffered since its inception, but unlike internal errors which at least produce a crash log, the freezes are too random and unpredictable. On the other hand, since they seem to occur only in select maps, it might be possible to narrow down the suspects with thorough testing.

Frank wrote:
Another issue on many skirmish maps is Harvesters freezing. The second attachment is a savegame on Delta City, the Harvesters in the upper left field won't return to the refinery but freeze in place once they're full.


Let me guess, there are cliffs near the Tiberium fields? If so, then the cause is probably a pathfinding bug caused by Tiberium spawning on a cell next to a cliff (these cells). It's easy to fix/avoid when making a map, but unfortunately our mappers weren't aware of this issue when most of the maps were made.

Frank wrote:
Tiberium Floaters behave weirdly on some maps, they won't attack and kill units, but just send out strange flashes that don't seem to harm anyone.


I've noticed this too, I have a suspicion as to what the cause is. We'll have to do some testing.

Frank wrote:
In many missions, units won't auto-fire on visceroids if they are newly created by infantry dying in tiberium. This can be very annoying and requires a lot of micro-management, especially in missions like GDI 9. In GDI 10, this can work in your advantage, as the visceroids will attack Nod and even other tiberium lifeforms without them fighting back.


As explained by Apollo and Rampa, this is caused by the Visceroids being assigned to the Neutral house (hardcoded), which in most missions is allied to the player's house. Again, it's easy to avoid when mapping, but our main mission mapper probably wasn't aware of this back when the missions were made. We'll fix this eventually.

Frank wrote:
I believe I already saw this somewhere else, but just to be sure: Globotech produces Nod units in GDI missions 12 and 13.


This has been fixed.

Frank wrote:
Snipers will not automatically fire on vehicles, but they will fire on some infantry they can't deal damage against, like cyborgs and exo-suits.


Unfortunately this seems to be a hardcoded issue, the Sniper attacks any units classified as infantry (incl. cyborgs and exo-suits).

Frank wrote:
GDI mission 7: the unit AI of my commando is weird. I can outrange laser turrets, but after firing one salvo, my commando will then walk forward into the laser's range for some reason. This makes it very frustrating to take them out, I constantly have to walk back to get healed after each shot.


This has been fixed.

Frank wrote:
Furthermore, and this is more a balancing issue, I have noticed the AI doesn't need tech buildings to build certain units in skirmish gmes, at least on Hard AI. This can get very unbalanced, because the Nod AI can build Incinerators as soon as they build a Hand of Nod, and these are really strong in the early game when you only have infantry. I think this is the reason why GDI AIs always do so much worse on skirmish maps, when going up against Nod AIs.


I've changed a few of the AI team requirements so it should no longer train Marauders or build Behemoths before their respective tech requirements are met. I'll have to check the Incinerator teams too.

Frank wrote:
Also a final question, just to be sure: is your initial objective in GDI mission 15, finding the abandoned Globotech outpost without being detected by Nod, supposed to be impossible? I've played it several times now, and I never found a way to do it, so now I just send one of my rangers deliberately into the Nod base every time I play it. I noticed there is a destroyable cliff in the southwest corner of the city, near the base of the destroyed bridge, but this doesn't lead anywhere. Was this maybe supposed to be the route to the outpost?


Yes, the initial objective is "fake", as in the Rangers are supposed to get captured. It's a little cheap, I admit, so maybe when we remake some of these missions, we'll make the objective possible, but optional and harder than bumping into the Nod trap.

The destroyable cliff is unrelated and it's just a nasty trap. It could indeed be made into a secret passage into the outpost. At least I think there should be some incentive for fighting all those Mantises.

Frank wrote:
And to conclude: this mod is absolutely awesome and thanks to all of you guys for creating it.


Thank you Smile I hope you keep enjoying it!
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Frank
Civilian


Joined: 05 Mar 2017

PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Crimsonum, thanks for your reply! I'm looking forwards to the next release!

One more thing though, the last couple of days I tried several 8 player skirmish maps, and freezes happened really often now. For example, it also happens on Loyalty, a map I played several times in the past without any trouble.

Now I also have a new laptop and switched from Windows 7 to 10, could that maybe be the cause of the worse performance somehow? Otherwise, it seems something has happened with the last major new release.

EDIT: This time it's actually reproducible, I can't load my latest skirmish game anymore. I've attached it to this message:


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update:
I've tried playing TI on my old laptop, and the same issues appear. The only difference is that on my old laptop (Windows 7) I get a message "Twisted Insurrection is unable to continue" and I can close it, while on my new laptop (Windows 10) it freezes without a message and it's a real hassle to end the program.

Just to be clear, I played TI for more than a year on my old laptop without issues before version 0.7, so something must have gone wrong with that update.

I really hope you can fix this issue in the next version, because I used to enjoy large Skirmish games a lot, and Skirmish has become practically unplayable now.

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Frank
Civilian


Joined: 05 Mar 2017

PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apologies, I forgot to log in, this message is coming from me:

Anonymous wrote:
Update:
I've tried playing TI on my old laptop, and the same issues appear. The only difference is that on my old laptop (Windows 7) I get a message "Twisted Insurrection is unable to continue" and I can close it, while on my new laptop (Windows 10) it freezes without a message and it's a real hassle to end the program.

Just to be clear, I played TI for more than a year on my old laptop without issues before version 0.7, so something must have gone wrong with that update.

I really hope you can fix this issue in the next version, because I used to enjoy large Skirmish games a lot, and Skirmish has become practically unplayable now.

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