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Open Tiberian Sun
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Would you mod and play Tiberian Sun in 3D ?
yes
89%
 89%  [ 50 ]
no
10%
 10%  [ 6 ]
Total Votes : 56

Author Message
Judeau
Commander


Joined: 28 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 1:00 pm    Post subject:  Open Tiberian Sun Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I am in need of your thoughts on the subject of Tiberian Sun in 3D.
The goal of this project would be recreating tiberian sun in a 3d engine.
Voxel formats would no longer be supported, the same with shps.
Modding inis would still be available, and you could easily add new units/buildings, if you learned basic 3d.

The advtanges of this would be : full 3d perspective, first person controlling of vehicles, far reaching modding support, improved graphics

disadvantages : a new base set of graphics would have to be made

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ViPr
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Joined: 30 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i would only be interested though if the engine was equal or better than Unreal Engine 3. and it would be nice if you make it so that almost every unit can be controlled by one player from first person view.

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Apex
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Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Location: Final Alert 2

PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So maybe have a commander campaign and a soldier campaign or mini games...nice. The thing is that Python usually is better for 3D games when you know how to use it. Python usually never uses equal signs but "-" and "()". The AI can usually be coded better. Since with 3D engines there are almost never 90 degree wall and python has line like "AIAnglePass(40)" preventing AI from climing steep hills.

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Judeau
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Joined: 28 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The Colonel wrote:
So maybe have a commander campaign and a soldier campaign or mini games...nice. The thing is that Python usually is better for 3D games when you know how to use it. Python usually never uses equal signs but "-" and "()". The AI can usually be coded better. Since with 3D engines there are almost never 90 degree wall and python has line like "AIAnglePass(40)" preventing AI from climing steep hills.


I'll try not to be too offensive, but inanity of your statement is rather ...infuriating.

execute this :

Printf( "I will not insult coders again" );

for( i = 0 ; i >= 0 ; i++ )
Printf( "I will not talk about things I know close to nothing about\n" );



now, make an actual game from scratch in C, and make one from scratch in python, then make sure they do exactly the same in their code.

then, tell me which goes at 1 FPS

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John Galt
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Location: Galt's Gulch

PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
So maybe have a commander campaign and a soldier campaign or mini games...nice. The thing is that Python usually is better for 3D games when you know how to use it. Python usually never uses equal signs but "-" and "()". The AI can usually be coded better. Since with 3D engines there are almost never 90 degree wall and python has line like "AIAnglePass(40)" preventing AI from climing steep hills.


Hello kids. Today's lesson is "How to sound intelligent while having absolutely no clues about the subject at hand". And you've just witnessed the perfect example, The Colonel's awesomely insightful post about Python, 3D and parentheses. Did you manage to make any sense of it? That's all right, he didn't either. See, that's the beauty of this skill - as long as nobody tries to actually think about your comments, you actually appear intelligent.
And thanks to the equal rights movements, idiots like that will never be disposed of. For shame, really.

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ORCACommander
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Joined: 14 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I would like to see 3d But I can't model for shit.

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Von Kriplespac
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Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Location: Somewhere

PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

DCoder wrote:
Quote:
So maybe have a commander campaign and a soldier campaign or mini games...nice. The thing is that Python usually is better for 3D games when you know how to use it. Python usually never uses equal signs but "-" and "()". The AI can usually be coded better. Since with 3D engines there are almost never 90 degree wall and python has line like "AIAnglePass(40)" preventing AI from climing steep hills.


Hello kids. Today's lesson is "How to sound intelligent while having absolutely no clues about the subject at hand". And you've just witnessed the perfect example, The Colonel's awesomely insightful post about Python, 3D and parentheses. Did you manage to make any sense of it? That's all right, he didn't either. See, that's the beauty of this skill - as long as nobody tries to actually think about your comments, you actually appear intelligent.
And thanks to the equal rights movements, idiots like that will never be disposed of. For shame, really.


This post is made of epic win and good.
Anyway, good luck on it Judeau.

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Mortecha
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Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I really like the 3D idea. Good luck Judeau. Nice infinite for loop #Tongue.

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Gangster
Commander


Joined: 11 Jun 2004
Location: Moscow, Russia

PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I dont know, if new engine will be better then say... Generals engine or CnC3. I can do 3d models but who else can do right.. optimized model?

Okay. I ll try to mod your engine. But i cant guarantie anything completed and playable done on it.

Good luck anyway. Smile

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OmegaBolt
President


Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Location: York, England

PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sounds like a plan. I vote yes.

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ChielScape
General


Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Location: In ur BIOS, Steeln ur Megahurtz!

PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Von Kriplespac wrote:
DCoder wrote:
Quote:
So maybe have a commander campaign and a soldier campaign or mini games...nice. The thing is that Python usually is better for 3D games when you know how to use it. Python usually never uses equal signs but "-" and "()". The AI can usually be coded better. Since with 3D engines there are almost never 90 degree wall and python has line like "AIAnglePass(40)" preventing AI from climing steep hills.


Hello kids. Today's lesson is "How to sound intelligent while having absolutely no clues about the subject at hand". And you've just witnessed the perfect example, The Colonel's awesomely insightful post about Python, 3D and parentheses. Did you manage to make any sense of it? That's all right, he didn't either. See, that's the beauty of this skill - as long as nobody tries to actually think about your comments, you actually appear intelligent.
And thanks to the equal rights movements, idiots like that will never be disposed of. For shame, really.


This post is made of epic win and good.
Anyway, good luck on it Judeau.


seconded

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Oshog
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Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Location: Sofia, Bulgaria

PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, let's say Tiberian Sun has enough 3D graphics out there, which can be used. And people can donate the rest.

What I'm concerned - who will make the coding part? That will be a hell of a lot work for a single man and I have no idea how a team can be assembled.

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ORCACommander
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Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Location: Flying into hostile territory

PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I can manage to get the renegade models into .OBJ format then someone can import them to 3dsmax.

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Kiith-Sa
Rocket Cyborg


Joined: 26 Oct 2004

PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So are you going totally from scratch? Not even your own voxel format?I think they could still be pretty good altough zooming/filtering would be a pain in the ass. Anyway, it's way simpler/faster to go with just triangle meshes and the resulting engine would be probably better.

Awaiting new source release... I won't code C but I can give tips/test.

And people,please: Don't talk about advanced features while there's not even... nothing (remember OpenSun?).

I'd like if this engine had a map format, static and possibly animated mesh rendering, etc... #Tongue

Don't expect Unreal Engine 3. You'd need a genius and an army of coders to do that.

Also, stuff like combining FPS/RTS view/logic is extremely hard to code, it will be used in 2 mods and none of them will actually use it right to improve gameplay. When it's going to be OS, code it yourself if you want it.

I'd say first build TS-equivalent today-looking engine. Then add more logic.

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Crimsonum
Seth


Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Location: Fineland

PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sounds like an excellent plan, but I think I wont be able to help any graphical way...

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Lightstorm
Light Infantry


Joined: 01 Mar 2007
Location: Dead and back Commander...Dead and back

PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

IDEA:: I'm sure you've seen the user interface WW designed for Tiberian Twilight? well I'd use that interface in your game.
this sounds awesome, good luck.

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Pepzi
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Joined: 26 Nov 2004
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

What would the format(s) be for 3D models? Gangster/Jabberwoky is a good example of masterful 3D modeling.

It sure would be nice if this game had the same features as TS, and more thereof. Sounds like a challenge, don't you think?

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Gangster
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Joined: 11 Jun 2004
Location: Moscow, Russia

PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I ll be glad to work on exact TS copy.. but improvements\changes\revisions is not for me.

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Lightstorm
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Joined: 01 Mar 2007
Location: Dead and back Commander...Dead and back

PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Update: this is the sidebar i think should be used, ignore the hideous looking defenisve platform and happy looking terrain, the only thing that should be used is the sidebar

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Judeau
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Joined: 28 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Lightstorm wrote:
Update: this is the sidebar i think should be used, ignore the hideous looking defenisve platform and happy looking terrain, the only thing that should be used is the sidebar


with this , you mean a TS style sidebar #Tongue

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Judeau
Commander


Joined: 28 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

here's a test



terrain engine -blur.PNG
 Description:
blurred heightmap
 Filesize:  1.08 MB
 Viewed:  40378 Time(s)

terrain engine -blur.PNG



terrain engine.PNG
 Description:
sharp heightmap
 Filesize:  1.04 MB
 Viewed:  40379 Time(s)

terrain engine.PNG



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ViPr
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Joined: 30 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

what is that?

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Judeau
Commander


Joined: 28 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ViPr wrote:
what is that?


a quick test with a 512x512 heightmap and colormap, so there are 260 000 polygons in that, with no texturing, it looks shit at a very close distance, but, as you can see, when zoomed out it shows it can do some nice stuff

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ViPr
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Joined: 30 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

how do the frame rates compare when doing it that way and doing it by using virtual displacement mapping?

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Lightstorm
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Joined: 01 Mar 2007
Location: Dead and back Commander...Dead and back

PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Judeau wrote:
Lightstorm wrote:
Update: this is the sidebar i think should be used, ignore the hideous looking defenisve platform and happy looking terrain, the only thing that should be used is the sidebar


with this , you mean a TS style sidebar #Tongue


what do you mean? its a sidebar isn't it?

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Tyler Adams
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Joined: 08 Oct 2004
Location: Back in black.

PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Lightstorm wrote:
Judeau wrote:
Lightstorm wrote:
Update: this is the sidebar i think should be used, ignore the hideous looking defenisve platform and happy looking terrain, the only thing that should be used is the sidebar


with this , you mean a TS style sidebar #Tongue


what do you mean? its a sidebar isn't it?


He means sidebar, not like the gey bottom bar, like in Genz.

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Judeau
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Joined: 28 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ViPr wrote:
how do the frame rates compare when doing it that way and doing it by using virtual displacement mapping?


a lot of computers don't support that

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DeathRay2K
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Joined: 01 Sep 2002
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

How are you creating the heightmap? Is it generated or did you just make it in an image program?

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Judeau
Commander


Joined: 28 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

DeathRay2K wrote:
How are you creating the heightmap? Is it generated or did you just make it in an image program?


just a nice little texture, don't worry though, i'll make some algorithms for terrain generation once i actually start on a map editor

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friday-13th
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Joined: 08 Aug 2005
Location: Toronto Ontario

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

you know that making this mod in 3d platform would most likely make it a whole diffrent game...

Very Happy i say yearr

it would be cool if you place the side bar onthe top or th left,go beyond it Rolling Eyes

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DeathRay2K
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well if you're generating the heightmap you'll have to be very careful that it will always provide adequate flat space for the players to build on, but still look reasonably natural.

Also, I really hope you succeed better than OpenSun did. #Tongue

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ViPr
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Joined: 30 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Judeau wrote:
ViPr wrote:
how do the frame rates compare when doing it that way and doing it by using virtual displacement mapping?


a lot of computers don't support that


does this mean you are not planning on making your engine better than the C&C3 engine? because if that is the case why would anyone make TS in your engine rather than just make it a mod for C&C3?

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ORCACommander
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

because anything except engine capability is superior to cnc 3 except supcom and the homeworld saga

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Judeau
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Joined: 28 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ViPr wrote:
Judeau wrote:
ViPr wrote:
how do the frame rates compare when doing it that way and doing it by using virtual displacement mapping?


a lot of computers don't support that


does this mean you are not planning on making your engine better than the C&C3 engine? because if that is the case why would anyone make TS in your engine rather than just make it a mod for C&C3?


because our dear CnC3 engine is perhaps.........incapable of many things ?

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friday-13th
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Joined: 08 Aug 2005
Location: Toronto Ontario

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ViPr wrote:
Judeau wrote:
ViPr wrote:
how do the frame rates compare when doing it that way and doing it by using virtual displacement mapping?


a lot of computers don't support that


does this mean you are not planning on making your engine better than the C&C3 engine? because if that is the case why would anyone make TS in your engine rather than just make it a mod for C&C3?

because the mod is for ts,he doesnt want to mod it for cnc3 and it wont be better cause the game isnt better....derrrr

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Pepzi
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Joined: 26 Nov 2004
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
ViPr wrote:
Judeau wrote:
ViPr wrote:
how do the frame rates compare when doing it that way and doing it by using virtual displacement mapping?


a lot of computers don't support that


does this mean you are not planning on making your engine better than the C&C3 engine? because if that is the case why would anyone make TS in your engine rather than just make it a mod for C&C3?


because our dear CnC3 engine is perhaps.........incapable of many things ?


I agree. People tend to underestimate the potential of a new 3D engine in favor of C&C3.

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Kiith-Sa
Rocket Cyborg


Joined: 26 Oct 2004

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, if Judeau allows that (I certainly hope so), the engine could be supplied with the mod-> e.g. a stand-alone FREE game (Exodus-size TC-s could use this). That's WAY better than a C&C3 mod.

BTW, Judeau, looks like your idea was totally different from my idea from start #Tongue.
Are you planning on just one big texture for whole thing? I think you could use a file section holding index to material(for deformations,decals) for every point and so per-tile texture, just having one/few huge ones in RAM is pretty bad. Also, what framerate do you get with so many polys from that height?

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Judeau
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Joined: 28 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kiith-Sa wrote:
Well, if Judeau allows that (I certainly hope so), the engine could be supplied with the mod-> e.g. a stand-alone FREE game (Exodus-size TC-s could use this). That's WAY better than a C&C3 mod.

BTW, Judeau, looks like your idea was totally different from my idea from start #Tongue.
Are you planning on just one big texture for whole thing? I think you could use a file section holding index to material(for deformations,decals) for every point and so per-tile texture, just having one/few huge ones in RAM is pretty bad. Also, what framerate do you get with so many polys from that height?


oh this really was just a test of terrain generation according to heightmaps

finished TSO will use actual maps with LOD grids etc #Tongue, those will be generated by the map editor once it is made

the framerate on this monster of a model is slow on my computer, 1.2 FPS( onboard 3d card, don't laugh #Tongue ), because the thing is rendering more than a quarter million quads

in the end i intend to use geo mipmapping and various culling manners to properly render terrain, but for now, tests are needed, until i've worked out various ways , and then, finally, i can work on making the actual terrain engine

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Kiith-Sa
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Joined: 26 Oct 2004

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quads? Not triangles?
Is there any difference in speed?
Is the whole thing just one big vertex array?

Actually, I'd expect it to run even slower, 1.2 FPS is pretty good for this imo.

Are you sure about geo mipmapping? It's pretty hard to get right, and I don't think even SAGE/SC/CoH/most of other RTS's use it, altough I don't have any of these games to be totally positive.

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Von Kriplespac
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hehe, beat your FPS, Judeau with 16. =3

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Judeau
Commander


Joined: 28 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kiith-Sa wrote:
Quads? Not triangles?
Is there any difference in speed?
Is the whole thing just one big vertex array?

Actually, I'd expect it to run even slower, 1.2 FPS is pretty good for this imo.

Are you sure about geo mipmapping? It's pretty hard to get right, and I don't think even SAGE/SC/CoH/most of other RTS's use it, although I don't have any of these games to be totally positive.


Well, they don't have fully customizable viewpoints either, so they don't need it, I'd like it if TSO was capable of this, which would also allow future support for the vehicle controlling.

also, currently using TRIANGLE_STRIP arrays, FPS rate bumped up to 1.5 FPS #Tongue

Though, I am not to sure about having deformable terrain AND different viewpoints, for every weapon hit all different LOD's would have to be adjusted

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Judeau
Commander


Joined: 28 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

oh noes, double post

either way, i bring you a little demo of what i have now, it has one minor problem, and no LOD switching, but i'm sure you'll enjoy it



3d.rar
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  3d.rar
 Filesize:  383.5 KB
 Downloaded:  523 Time(s)


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Pepzi
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Joined: 26 Nov 2004
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Awesome!

Don't have anything useful to say about it though : /

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Chrisse
AA Infantry


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cool, but a pretty sensetive carmera, takes 1 sec to spin around 360*, lol

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ViPr
Gauss Rifle Trooper


Joined: 30 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

how on earth have you gone from 1.5 fps to over 200 fps and this is on my really old graphic card that plays modern games awfully.

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Judeau
Commander


Joined: 28 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ViPr wrote:
how on earth have you gone from 1.5 fps to over 200 fps and this is on my really old graphic card that plays modern games awfully.


2 words
frustum culling Laughing

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Micro TS
Portable, no campaign, movies or music, just the engine and needed resources for skirmish and lan.

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ChielScape
General


Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Location: In ur BIOS, Steeln ur Megahurtz!

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Lightstorm wrote:
Update: this is the sidebar i think should be used, ignore the hideous looking defenisve platform and happy looking terrain, the only thing that should be used is the sidebar
http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/b/b7/Ttpic.jpg

i think you mean to use this exact sidebar, instead of trying to say "use a sidebar, and not a bottom-bar". amiright?

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ViPr
Gauss Rifle Trooper


Joined: 30 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Judeau, there is a glitch though. some things behind are appearing in front or something. and i don't think frustum culling helps the speed that much. i think it's probably because your computer doesn't have any graphic card.

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Judeau
Commander


Joined: 28 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ViPr wrote:
Judeau, there is a glitch though. some things behind are appearing in front or something. and i don't think frustum culling helps the speed that much. i think it's probably because your computer doesn't have any graphic card.


ah, i thought it was in comparison to your OWN previous attempt, if any such existed

though, frustum culling has gotten me a 350% speed boost
and yes, as i said, "it has one minor problem"

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ViPr
Gauss Rifle Trooper


Joined: 30 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

no i didn't try your terrain program previously. btw i was using a geforce 6800. i'm wondering what FPS the people with geforce 8800 are getting. anyone?

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