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 Forum index » Other Projects » Inactive Projects » Open Tiberian Sun
Open Tiberian Sun
Moderators: Judeau
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Would you mod and play Tiberian Sun in 3D ?
yes
90%
 90%  [ 50 ]
no
9%
 9%  [ 5 ]
Total Votes : 55

Author Message
Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amd64 X2 3800+, 2gb RAM and GeForce 7800 GTX gets an avarage of 55 fps. I'm sure that frame rate from 8800 graphics card should be excelent.

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Dupl3xxx
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Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Location: somewhere south of the north pole

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't there a way to convert vxl to 3ds? (does the 3ds2vxl to both ways?) If not, If i remember correctly, Banshee was woring on something like that? #Tongue
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ChielScape
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Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Location: In ur BIOS, Steeln ur Megahurtz!

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Banshee wrote:
Amd64 X2 3800+, 2gb RAM and GeForce 7800 GTX gets an avarage of 55 fps. I'm sure that frame rate from 8800 graphics card should be excelent.

where do you count fps?
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Judeau
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Joined: 28 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChielScape wrote:
Banshee wrote:
Amd64 X2 3800+, 2gb RAM and GeForce 7800 GTX gets an avarage of 55 fps. I'm sure that frame rate from 8800 graphics card should be excelent.

where do you count fps?


log.txt
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ViPr
Gauss Rifle Trooper


Joined: 30 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

banshee, how the hell are you getting a much worse frame rate than on my weaker machine?

and no 3ds2vxl does not convert both ways.

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Judeau
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Joined: 28 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

this should fix the problem, speed it up, AND gives you full mobility

KP_ENTER to move down, KP_PLUS to move up
normal arrows for strafing/forward

mouse + left button to look around


terrain.rar
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 Filename:  terrain.rar
 Filesize:  393.18 KB
 Downloaded:  355 Time(s)


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Mortecha
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Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wow, dude this is ztyping insane. I love it. so what exacly will the terrain be ingame. Will we be able to move the camra around like this or will it be a fixed isometric one. Also are you using realtime voxels or 3d models?

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ViPr
Gauss Rifle Trooper


Joined: 30 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah glitch fixed. 230 FPS. but your controls are sadistic.

also you need to change the thing that controls how far you can see.

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Von Kriplespac
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Joined: 01 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, its very nice, and as log.txt reports on FPS:
seconds taken : 59.686, average / second : 58.439
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IVI
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Joined: 25 Jun 2006
Location: Feilubin

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fantastic Shocked !! although, the way I see it, all the SHP buildings and SHP graphics we've done through the times will be useless and unuseable in this new 3d engine for TS Sad . but that doesn't affect my hopes that this new engine will be finished and be applied effectively. Very Happy

Idea perhaps we can convert the 2d SHPs into sprites? kinda what half life does with flame effects?? or if this ever gets implemented we'd have to create everything in 3d (IOW, modernize)? Question
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Judeau
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Joined: 28 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IVI wrote:
fantastic Shocked !! although, the way I see it, all the SHP buildings and SHP graphics we've done through the times will be useless and unuseable in this new 3d engine for TS Sad . but that doesn't affect my hopes that this new engine will be finished and be applied effectively. Very Happy

Idea perhaps we can convert the 2d SHPs into sprites? kinda what half life does with flame effects?? or if this ever gets implemented we'd have to create everything in 3d (IOW, modernize)? Question


yes, we do have to convert everything to 3d. gangster and holy master already have joined
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ViPr
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Joined: 30 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well if you followed my advice all the SHPs and VXLs that you guys made will have been converted from 3d models so you should already have nice source artwork to use for a 3d engine.

i would like to also add that even though judeau has decided not to make this a next-gen 3d engine. this does not mean that you have to make your 3d artwork old-gen. there is converter software to generate old-gen art assets from next-gen art-assets. that way you will also have nice ready-made source art assets to use for the next engine after this current Judeau engine. that engine is already being developed by someone else since Judeau doesn't want to develop it yet.

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Kiith-Sa
Rocket Cyborg


Joined: 26 Oct 2004

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bottom bar- I think stuff like positions of GUI should be customizable.
Frustum culling? How do you do this? Do you split the terrain into sections?
Cull against frustum (6 planes) or against frustum sphere, cone? Are culled things defined by boxes, spheres?
I can't test it yet, I'll give you my FPS later.
I recommend spheres for culling. Much faster for me, altough not so much stuff culled.
Also, if you're gonna have RTS camera, culling with just 3 planes could be effective (didn't try it)-upper,left,right- left and right meet just a bit behind you, upper one meets ground.
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DonutArnold
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Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not bad at all because it's getting better all the time, great job Judeau!

My FPS:
seconds taken : 71.604, average / second : 58.921

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ViPr
Gauss Rifle Trooper


Joined: 30 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

why is the colormap flat grey? and why is my FPS better than everyone's by far even though i have like the oldest equipment? and why did you give out your source code for this?

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Judeau
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Joined: 28 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kiith-Sa wrote:
Bottom bar- I think stuff like positions of GUI should be customizable.
Frustum culling? How do you do this? Do you split the terrain into sections?
Cull against frustum (6 planes) or against frustum sphere, cone? Are culled things defined by boxes, spheres?
I can't test it yet, I'll give you my FPS later.
I recommend spheres for culling. Much faster for me, altough not so much stuff culled.
Also, if you're gonna have RTS camera, culling with just 3 planes could be effective (didn't try it)-upper,left,right- left and right meet just a bit behind you, upper one meets ground.


culling spheres against the six planes, terrain is subdivided into 32x32 pieces

ViPr wrote:
why is the colormap flat grey? and why is my FPS better than everyone's by far even though i have like the oldest equipment? and why did you give out your source code for this?


because the colormap is a placeholder , if you looked at the sky or w/e , or were close to an edge, your FPS would speed u significantly due to the culling, and i post the source because it IS TS : OPEN
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ChielScape
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Joined: 07 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Banshee wrote:
Amd64 X2 3800+, 2gb RAM and GeForce 7800 GTX gets an avarage of 55 fps. I'm sure that frame rate from 8800 graphics card should be excelent.

err, wasnt this software rendered BTW,
if my 8800 GTX would increase performance, i wouldve gotten more than 60FPS, which seems more like it fits with my P4 3.0Ghz.
if i get mah new system in a few weeks (hopefully earlier)
ill test it on an E6420 maybe at stock first, but probably only at about 3.5ghz (my goal).
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Judeau
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Joined: 28 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChielScape wrote:
Banshee wrote:
Amd64 X2 3800+, 2gb RAM and GeForce 7800 GTX gets an avarage of 55 fps. I'm sure that frame rate from 8800 graphics card should be excelent.

err, wasnt this software rendered BTW,
if my 8800 GTX would increase performance, i wouldve gotten more than 60FPS, which seems more like it fits with my P4 3.0Ghz.
if i get mah new system in a few weeks (hopefully earlier)
ill test it on an E6420 maybe at stock first, but probably only at about 3.5ghz (my goal).


3d rendered, banshee's graphics card is bound to his refresh rate, so he doesn't go faster than what's needed.
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ChielScape
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ah, any way to unlock this?
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ViPr
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Joined: 30 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you guys probably have v-sync enabled or something.

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Judeau
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Joined: 28 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChielScape wrote:
ah, any way to unlock this?


driver config util ?
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Kiith-Sa
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Joined: 26 Oct 2004

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Catalyst/ForceWare. Sometimes even "application controlled" forces OpenGL vsync, so set it to "always off". Also, you can find many other settings there to improve your general 3D performance. If ForceWare/Catalyst is not enough, download Omega on top of it (no guarantees, though, Omega sometimes messes up and you need to reinstall drivers then), and/or ATI Tray Tools (ATI only of course).
I have AMD Athlon 64 3200+ (Venice, 2.0 Ghz), 512 MB DRR I and Radeon X1600 Pro with 512 MB GDDR II. Vsync disabled.

06/04/07, 18:41:50 : done initializing, seconds taken : 0.318
06/04/07, 18:42:36 : done 12466 frames , seconds taken : 46.005, average / second : 270.971


BTW, Judeau, your frustum culling code is copypasted from the same source as mine.#Tongue If you find any way to get bounding sphere (or just center) or cone of the frustum, tell me, I'm sure this code can be replaced by something much more effective.
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ChielScape
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ah.
average / second : 314.477
(8800GTX, Pentium 4 630 HT, 1GB DDR-400)
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Judeau
Commander


Joined: 28 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kiith-Sa wrote:
Catalyst/ForceWare. Sometimes even "application controlled" forces OpenGL vsync, so set it to "always off". Also, you can find many other settings there to improve your general 3D performance. If ForceWare/Catalyst is not enough, download Omega on top of it (no guarantees, though, Omega sometimes messes up and you need to reinstall drivers then), and/or ATI Tray Tools (ATI only of course).
I have AMD Athlon 64 3200+ (Venice, 2.0 Ghz), 512 MB DRR I and Radeon X1600 Pro with 512 MB GDDR II. Vsync disabled.

06/04/07, 18:41:50 : done initializing, seconds taken : 0.318
06/04/07, 18:42:36 : done 12466 frames , seconds taken : 46.005, average / second : 270.971


BTW, Judeau, your frustum culling code is copypasted from the same source as mine.#Tongue If you find any way to get bounding sphere (or just center) or cone of the frustum, tell me, I'm sure this code can be replaced by something much more effective.


care to explain yourself ?

bounding sphere of a frustum ?, cone of the frustum ?
aren't those LESS effective ?
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Kiith-Sa
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Joined: 26 Oct 2004

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's faster to compare to a sphere than to 6 planes. I've also read some about cone, altough I'm not sure. Sphere doesn't miss so many objects the frustum culls, and can be more effective especially if you have huge maps with tons of objects. Another possibility is to sphere-check, and ones in sphere frustum-check (sometimes can get further speedup).
Also, if you use sphere, you should not need to extract all those planes every frame/camera posrotsize change.
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Judeau
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Joined: 28 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kiith-Sa wrote:
It's faster to compare to a sphere than to 6 planes. I've also read some about cone, altough I'm not sure. Sphere doesn't miss so many objects the frustum culls, and can be more effective especially if you have huge maps with tons of objects. Another possibility is to sphere-check, and ones in sphere frustum-check (sometimes can get further speedup).
Also, if you use sphere, you should not need to extract all those planes every frame/camera posrotsize change.


but wouldn't you get all kinds of stuff behind you ?

if this was pure RTS view, i suppose sphere would be faster, but as i said, i intend to make units controllable by players, and extracting all the planes is a pretty cheap operation #Tongue( if done once per frame )
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ViPr
Gauss Rifle Trooper


Joined: 30 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChielScape wrote:
ah.
average / second : 314.477
(8800GTX, Pentium 4 630 HT, 1GB DDR-400)



that isn't much faster than my old graphic card. i guess we won't notice much difference unless the program is using lots of shader processing.

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Judeau
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Joined: 28 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

new version, i've been working on some features, like dynamic lighting, and level of detail for the terrain

light test is going well, level of detail is performing as expected, also modified frustum culling routine, and perspective.

LOD causes cracks to appear in the terrain in seams between tiles, i know


terrain.rar
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 Filename:  terrain.rar
 Filesize:  397.17 KB
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ViPr
Gauss Rifle Trooper


Joined: 30 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah that's why doing LOD on terrain is so tricky.

btw i decided to test the frame rate now without moving the camera at all. the rest of you make sure you do the same in case you haven't.

anyway i got around 356 FPS.

btw judeau please change the near far planes thing, i think it is, so that we can see all the terrain.

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IcySon55
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Joined: 19 Nov 2003
Location: Overworld

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He can't change it because his machine can't handle it.

On my machine here at work I got 708 fps on the first test, and 739 fps on the second test. Second test had more lights, both moving the camera.
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ChielScape
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ViPr wrote:
ChielScape wrote:
ah.
average / second : 314.477
(8800GTX, Pentium 4 630 HT, 1GB DDR-400)



that isn't much faster than my old graphic card. i guess we won't notice much difference unless the program is using lots of shader processing.


larger differences will probably bee seen when the cards are stressed more.
larger polycount, larger textures, and as you mentioned heavier use of shaders.
like i said though, a P4 really bottlenecks an 8k8, and the E6420, will probably increase performance significantly. not to mention the motherboard chipset upgrade from intel 915 (ASUS P5GDC Pro) to 965 (ASUS Commando)


Icy, what CPU do you have? dual core by any chance?
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IcySon55
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Joined: 19 Nov 2003
Location: Overworld

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 5600+ and an ATI Radeon X1300 Pro PCI-E
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Kiith-Sa
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Joined: 26 Oct 2004

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks great. Is light count on-screen still gonna be limited by 8?
BTW, The LOD switching is way too aggressive imo. Switch a little further.

Runs:
03/27/07, 18:49:45 : done initializing, seconds taken : 0.277
03/27/07, 18:50:50 : done 5458 frames , seconds taken : 64.874, average / second : 84.132

on netcafe Athlon XP 2000+, GF 4 MX 420 (no idea what RAM is)
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ViPr
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Joined: 30 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wtf are you talking about. there's about 3 lights.

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Clazzy
Karma Police


Joined: 26 Nov 2002
Location: Algae Colony On Mars

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tried compiling on Linux and it won't accept these two switches: -lopengl32 -lglu32.

Code:
gcc -o tsopen main.o IO.o SDL.o math.o opengl.o terrain.o -s -Wall -O3 -funsigned-char -DLOG -lSDLmain -lSDL -lSDL_image -lSDL_mixer -lopengl32 -lglu32
/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lopengl32
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status

Without them it doesn't work and spits out lots of OpenGL-related errors. Don't suppose you have any ideas, do you?
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ChielScape
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kiith-Sa wrote:
Looks great. Is light count on-screen still gonna be limited by 8?
BTW, The LOD switching is way too aggressive imo. Switch a little further.

Runs:
03/27/07, 18:49:45 : done initializing, seconds taken : 0.277
03/27/07, 18:50:50 : done 5458 frames , seconds taken : 64.874, average / second : 84.132

on netcafe Athlon XP 2000+, GF 4 MX 420 (no idea what RAM is)


i guess that would be 256MB, since i have the same thing, except the 420 is a 440. i only use it to watch anime and play music now though
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IcySon55
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Joined: 19 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ViPr wrote:
wtf are you talking about. there's about 3 lights.

I get special builds from Judeau, got a problem with that?
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Kiith-Sa
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Joined: 26 Oct 2004

PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most 3d cards have limitation to 8 lights being processed at the same time.
You can overcome this by sw/shader lights.
I think Judeau turns on/off the visible/invisible lights to allow a lot of lights on the map. So I want to know if he is still limited by this. (too lazy to read source now #Tongue)

BTW, Judeau, are you planning texturing? I think it might be pain in the ass for terrain with LODs.
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Dupl3xxx
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Joined: 22 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is awsome Surprised I have tested it, and the controls are good to go! but ragen drawed needs to be longer Wink Very good!
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Judeau
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Joined: 28 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kiith-Sa wrote:
Most 3d cards have limitation to 8 lights being processed at the same time.
You can overcome this by sw/shader lights.
I think Judeau turns on/off the visible/invisible lights to allow a lot of lights on the map. So I want to know if he is still limited by this. (too lazy to read source now #Tongue)

BTW, Judeau, are you planning texturing? I think it might be pain in the ass for terrain with LODs.


texturing isn't a problem, and, it seems, my wonderful little method of switching lights on and off fails, still limited to 8 lights, so, i'll be using lightmaps for terrain.

i'm also thinking about just using geomorphing on the visible sectors of terrain, perhaps it'll cost a wee little CPU power, but i think it'll pave the way nicely for dynamic terrain.
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Dupl3xxx
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Joined: 22 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to kill the happy feel right now, but I tested with some color on the colormap.png, ang the texture didin't look good at all! It got blury and awfull Confused I nkow this is a beta, but I think you should know Wink Oh, and after some testing, I think this rocks even more! The hightmap works as I want it to! Really good work!
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Judeau
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Joined: 28 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dupl3xxx wrote:
Sorry to kill the happy feel right now, but I tested with some color on the colormap.png, ang the texture didin't look good at all! It got blury and awfull Confused I nkow this is a beta, but I think you should know Wink Oh, and after some testing, I think this rocks even more! The hightmap works as I want it to! Really good work!


the colormap is pretty much a placeholder
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Dupl3xxx
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Joined: 22 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hehe, ok then Wink Hope it gets better #Tongue
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shinji
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Joined: 10 May 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

looks cool Very Happy kud u post some screenies Question
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Judeau
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Joined: 28 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, i could, once home, ewither way, disabled terrain LOD, view distance doubled, fog implemented, and scale sized up

use KP_INS and KP_DEL to switch between wireframe and normal view


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ViPr
Gauss Rifle Trooper


Joined: 30 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

something is screwy in this version; the terrain seems to get lighter and darker depending on what direction i'm looking. plus the fog lets me see further when i look diagonally at things coz the distance is the perpendicular distance to the camera plane instead of the distance to the camera point. i've seen that mistake in many games. plus i still want to see the entire terrain. can you make the view distance configurable?

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Judeau
Commander


Joined: 28 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ViPr wrote:
something is screwy in this version; the terrain seems to get lighter and darker depending on what direction i'm looking. plus the fog lets me see further when i look diagonally at things coz the distance is the perpendicular distance to the camera plane instead of the distance to the camera point. i've seen that mistake in many games. plus i still want to see the entire terrain. can you make the view distance configurable?


that's how opengl fog works
and, yes, the lighting is screwy, blasted thing refuses to remain static
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Judeau
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Joined: 28 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

also, banshee has created a TSO subforum, look under pre-alpha
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Clazzy
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Joined: 26 Nov 2002
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moved to the new forum just to keep everything together.
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Kiith-Sa
Rocket Cyborg


Joined: 26 Oct 2004

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems to be much better (and it seems to be fast as the LOD version)
On the same netcafe computer:

03/29/07, 18:19:05 : done initializing, seconds taken : 1.014
03/29/07, 18:19:57 : done 4223 frames , seconds taken : 52.593, average / second : 80.296

Are you scrapping terrain LOD forever or only until you get it right?

What about making your own shader fog for GPUs that support it?
It should be faster+look better that way.
Anyway, it's not that important. Most RTS's do exactly the same and can blend fog colour with enviroment nicely.
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