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 Forum index » Other Projects » Inactive Projects » Open Tiberian Sun
Open Tiberian Sun Goals
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Judeau
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Joined: 28 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:49 pm    Post subject:  Open Tiberian Sun Goals
Subject description: A description of what OTS is supposed to become.
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As you can all guess, it's geared towards remaking C&C : Tiberian Sun.
However, there are some major differences between OTS and TS.

Open Tiberian Sun for instance, will be fully three-dimensional.
I also aim to make OTS fully cross-platform.
All Tiberian Sun graphics will have to be remade in 3d models.
Far more freedom will be there in the OTS engine, modding capabilities extended beyond your wildest dreams.
The OTS engine will also feature advanced particle systems, terrain morphing and weather.
Furthermore, I intend to add the possibility to use this engine to remake Red alert(2), with various gameplay elements from other command and conquer games implemented.

secondary : ( basically, dropped for now )
The OTS engine will feature a real three-dimensional view, with you, as a player, being able to look around freely, to see your battles from every angle possible.
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Last edited by Judeau on Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:25 am; edited 4 times in total

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Clazzy
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Joined: 26 Nov 2002
Location: Algae Colony On Mars

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you aiming to be totally cross-compatible or will this just be an optional bonus?
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Judeau
Commander


Joined: 28 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clazzy wrote:
Are you aiming to be totally cross-compatible or will this just be an optional bonus?


as in fully allowing people to make RA/RA2 in this engine ?
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Clazzy
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Joined: 26 Nov 2002
Location: Algae Colony On Mars

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Between operating systems, not games.
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Judeau
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Joined: 28 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clazzy wrote:
Between operating systems, not games.


then, yes, as you know, you can compile it on linux, as you did succesfully.
*edits goals*
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Clazzy
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Joined: 26 Nov 2002
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just wanted to check that it's a goal rather than an optional bonus Wink.
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Team Black
Defense Minister


Joined: 25 Sep 2006
Location: Georgia, USA Posts: Over 9000

PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

just wanted too put this out there before I forget -
in the long run, it would rock if we could get the AI to use stuff that they left out in TS, such as carryalls, EMP, firestorm, mobile EMP, maybe even set up an encammpment with a mobile war factory...

but I's expect that all of that will come, well in the future of course Wink
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Judeau
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Joined: 28 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blackster wrote:
just wanted too put this out there before I forget -
in the long run, it would rock if we could get the AI to use stuff that they left out in TS, such as carryalls, EMP, firestorm, mobile EMP, maybe even set up an encammpment with a mobile war factory...

but I's expect that all of that will come, well in the future of course Wink


oh certainly, though i would think it best if you posted this in the suggestions forum
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Team Black
Defense Minister


Joined: 25 Sep 2006
Location: Georgia, USA Posts: Over 9000

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ah geez. Think you could move it for me?
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IVI
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Joined: 25 Jun 2006
Location: Feilubin

PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aren't voxel models 3d too? can we use them in this new engine or do we have to remake ALL of our work??
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Kiith-Sa
Rocket Cyborg


Joined: 26 Oct 2004

PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, someone can write a vxl to 3ds converter (I think Banshee worked on something like that?), but RA2 voxels were NOT 3D (they were prerendered into sprites) and standard voxel rendering is still very slow, if you turn it into cubes you con get only as much as one, if points, HW acceleration or CPU still gets overwhelmed with more than about 50-100 of these huge piles of vertices. Besides, 3D models are easier to make than voxels/SHPs, most of the people make their voxels in 3D programs.
No voxels until you have 8KiloCore processor #Tongue.

You don't have to remake. You can start from scratch.
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DragonFly
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Joined: 02 Jun 2007
Location: England

PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well voxel to 3d would work if you kill all the hidden vertices but even then you would end up with a boxy model which would need exstensive editing before it will look good in game. By which point you might as well make it in 3d to start with.

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ORCACommander
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Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Location: Flying into hostile territory

PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

there is a script out there for it I just don't know where.
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Judeau
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Joined: 28 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, taking out the 3d view, it poses too many problems, people seem to want panoramic views of a map.
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DragonFly
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Joined: 02 Jun 2007
Location: England

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

will we still be able to rotate the view and zoon in/out?

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Judeau
Commander


Joined: 28 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DragonFly wrote:
will we still be able to rotate the view and zoon in/out?


certainly
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Dupl3xxx
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Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Location: somewhere south of the north pole

PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

About the voxels, I have an idea:

See the images? That is a simple voxel.
It is showed two times, a "standar" view, and a poly-draw view. The idea is simple, draw the voxel with same detail, fewer poly's.
How it works, it ddraws lines "between" each voxel, then removes any polly, if it isn't needed, like on a flat surface. A flat surface only needs one polly, right?
As you might see, on the side and top, there is about 40+voxels, but only two poly's. Get the idea? #Tongue

Personaly, I am not into 3d-apps, so i don't know if it'll work at all, but if >]It makes zooming better as well, and on (almoast" every 3d-game, you can see poly's if you look near or have a good eye!


Oh, and one mmore thing, the voxel is made from 1205voxels, the poly-draw is 15 #Tongue

*hmpf*

EDIT:
Sorry to tell, but Vista don't like TSO, it starts and shuts down in 0,0000001 ms, all I see is the window appering, and dissappering Sad I don't know what can be done, but I just thought you might wanted to know Wink


Voxel_Idea.png
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BOTTOM=POLY-DRAW
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Voxel_Idea.png



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Kiith-Sa
Rocket Cyborg


Joined: 26 Oct 2004

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's actually pretty hard to do. (and if used, it should be done in voxel to mesh conversion)
Simple "turn big flat face made of tons of voxels into a quad" shouldn't be so hard, though.
It's still better to use triangle meshes from start.
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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey guys, I just wanna point out that in order to progress with my VXLSE III autonormals research, I'll need to turn voxels into meshes. So, I'll end adding a function to export voxels as OBJ or some 3d graphic format at some point. I guess this should help this project Smile.

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ViPr
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Joined: 30 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

are you talking about metaballs?

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Judeau
Commander


Joined: 28 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ViPr wrote:
are you talking about metaballs?

i would assume he is, seeing as it's the only reliable algorithm in point cloud->mesh conversions , perhaps he'll make his own, voxels are a bit less complicated #Tongue
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Jah
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Joined: 23 Nov 2002

PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, Judeau, I know its not very popular here but what about Mac OS X? Will it be supported?
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Audiopulse
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Joined: 08 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry for poppin` in Smile

How is OTS thougt to be played? abit like...
Warhammer40K, where all the Base-management is easy to solve, since youre supposed to concentrate absolutely on the battlefield where, again, everything is laid out for fastpaced action.

Generals(?!), where youre certainly on the battlefield, when hell breaks loose on the map, but got to spend time with your base also. Looking for the spot the next Nukesilo or where another Bunker might fit the best, but youre still knowing that only a horde of tanks will help you if youre enemy knocks on the door.

AdvanceWars (You hopefully know that game Very Happy), where everything is _really_ about tactic. Think twice what you do spend your money for and calculate with every single damn infantry of your enemy, since only basic units do have moderate prices - all these other high-techtoys like the Disruptor, Bomber and of course the Mammoth MK2 are just way to expensive to gain two of them that often.
However - but these Units got to be feared then, for a reason.


Also, how is the scaling supposed to be? Enough space on the whole map to feature a base for each player just like in the original TS? Or, again, like Warhammer40K, where you got only a few Infantry-squads and afew tanks (on rather small maps) - Or do you try to move abit into Supreme-comanders direction by having larger maps to support several outposts (two per player e.g.)

The reason I ask is that I want to keep an eye on this mod. And maybe I got a few good Ideas to share with you, but since this is all new to me I got to ask at least how the game is supposed to be. I never knew which possibilitys you do have, and which not, if youre building your own engine. Thanks Smile
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Judeau
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Joined: 28 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Audiopulse wrote:
Sorry for poppin` in Smile

How is OTS thougt to be played? abit like...
Warhammer40K, where all the Base-management is easy to solve, since youre supposed to concentrate absolutely on the battlefield where, again, everything is laid out for fastpaced action.

Generals(?!), where youre certainly on the battlefield, when hell breaks loose on the map, but got to spend time with your base also. Looking for the spot the next Nukesilo or where another Bunker might fit the best, but youre still knowing that only a horde of tanks will help you if youre enemy knocks on the door.

AdvanceWars (You hopefully know that game Very Happy), where everything is _really_ about tactic. Think twice what you do spend your money for and calculate with every single damn infantry of your enemy, since only basic units do have moderate prices - all these other high-techtoys like the Disruptor, Bomber and of course the Mammoth MK2 are just way to expensive to gain two of them that often.
However - but these Units got to be feared then, for a reason.


Also, how is the scaling supposed to be? Enough space on the whole map to feature a base for each player just like in the original TS? Or, again, like Warhammer40K, where you got only a few Infantry-squads and afew tanks (on rather small maps) - Or do you try to move abit into Supreme-comanders direction by having larger maps to support several outposts (two per player e.g.)

The reason I ask is that I want to keep an eye on this mod. And maybe I got a few good Ideas to share with you, but since this is all new to me I got to ask at least how the game is supposed to be. I never knew which possibilitys you do have, and which not, if youre building your own engine. Thanks Smile


what about like TS #Tongue

and yes, Jah, if i can, i will support Macs.
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Audiopulse
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive played RA2 online one times - since then I never felt any desire playing that game or its little brother Tiberian Sun online again Laughing

so which of my example comes closest? Smile
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shinji
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

is it gonna be like all the other C&C's where you destroy everythin that the enemy has or like something else e.g dawn of war where you just destroy there HQ?
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Audiopulse
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sarpedon wrote:
is it gonna be like all the other C&C's where you destroy everythin that the enemy has or like something else e.g dawn of war where you just destroy there HQ?


You can modify the match-goals heavily. It is possible to have the goals containing killing only the HQ, but you can choose "Wipe it all away" too. Wink

My question was more about speed of the game, and size of the players armys/bases



...oh, and I guess youll keep realistic sizes for e.g. Infantry compared to buildings and Tanks, do you? Wink
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Lightstorm
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Joined: 01 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Audiopulse wrote:

...oh, and I guess youll keep realistic sizes for e.g. Infantry compared to buildings and Tanks, do you? Wink


Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

yeah sure it is.

have you SEEN TS?
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Judeau
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Joined: 28 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Audiopulse wrote:
sarpedon wrote:
is it gonna be like all the other C&C's where you destroy everythin that the enemy has or like something else e.g dawn of war where you just destroy there HQ?


You can modify the match-goals heavily. It is possible to have the goals containing killing only the HQ, but you can choose "Wipe it all away" too. Wink

My question was more about speed of the game, and size of the players armys/bases



...oh, and I guess youll keep realistic sizes for e.g. Infantry compared to buildings and Tanks, do you? Wink



and well, it's a bit like Generals, in the fact that that's the only CnC in the list #Tongue, TS generally focuses a lot more on thinking through your attacks and the element of surprise, combat generally is slower as well.
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Audiopulse
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lightstorm wrote:
Audiopulse wrote:

...oh, and I guess youll keep realistic sizes for e.g. Infantry compared to buildings and Tanks, do you? Wink


Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

yeah sure it is.

have you SEEN TS?

Just where did I say TS has got a realistic scaling?!

I was just guessing Judeau will keep a realistic size, now with the maps beeing bigger and due to that providing more space...
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Kiith-Sa
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Joined: 26 Oct 2004

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remember that those maps you saw were without texturing and any objects. Maps in final version might be much smaller (on the other hand, when this gets finished, GF8xxx will already be obsolete, so it's quite possible there will be Supreme Commander sized maps, but I think only in mods. Unmodified OTS should run on old computers, and unmodified TS gameplay doesn't fit huge maps anyway (considering huge to be 6x bigger than typical big TS map.
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Audiopulse
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are no Maps ala Supreme Comander needet to provide enough space for a realistic scaling...

Id just prefer it having a real. Scal. because then the tanks would at last look as mighty as they are - not to speak about the Buildings or Aircrafts.
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