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ini files and the veteran system.
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DragonFly
Cyborg Soldier


Joined: 02 Jun 2007
Location: England

PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 12:18 pm    Post subject:  ini files and the veteran system. Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

With the way veteran and elite is currently handled in the TS/RA2 ini's it is somewhat hard to even see how complete flexibility with units promotions could be archived.

One way is to convert the unit to another unit each time it promots but that could be messy if somone wants 5 levels for each unit resulting in over 500 objects where only 100 realy need to exist.

My suggestion is to make it so anything from the basic unit can be overiden by upgrade steps but still all contained within the same unit deffinition.

Something like:
Code:

[E1]
Image=E1
Name=Light Infantry
Category=Soldier
Primary=Minigun
Prerequisite=BARRACKS
CrushSound=SQUISH6
Strength=125
Pip=green
Armor=none
TechLevel=1
Sight=5
Speed=5
Owner=GDI,Nod
Cost=120
Points=5
VoiceSelect=15-I000,15-I004,15-I012,15-I048
VoiceMove=15-I018,15-I024,15-I044
VoiceAttack=15-I044,15-I050,15-I044,15-I046
VoiceFeedback=15-I058,15-I064
VoiceDie=DEDMAN1,DEDMAN2,DEDMAN2,DEDMAN4,DEDMAN5,DEDMAN6
Locomotor={4A582744-9839-11d1-B709-00A024DDAFD1}
PhysicalSize=1
MovementZone=Infantry
ThreatPosed=10
ImmuneToVeins=yes
Level2=
{
 Points=6
 Strength=150
 Primary=Minigun2
 ThreatPosed=11
}
Level3=
{
 Points=8
 Strength=175
 Primary=Minigun3
 ThreatPosed=13
 Scatter=Yes
}
Level4=
{
 Points=10
 Strength=200
 Primary=Minigun4
 Secondary=HandGrenade
 ThreatPosed=15
}
Level5=
{
 Image=E1ELITE
 Points=15
 Strength=250
 Primary=Minigun5
 Secondary=HandGrenade2
 ThreatPosed=18
 SelfHealing=Yes
}

As you can see that is far neater than having 5 complete copies of Light Infantry would be and converting the unit to the next level each time.

Each level should be stacking so something thats defined at say level 3 doesn't need to be redefined in every level after that (eg the scatter one)

I realise this isn't how ini files usauly work but I see no reason why this method could not be used as it allows more flexibility.

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Morpher
General


Joined: 28 Jan 2005

PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

An ok suggestion. I agree that key values need to be able to be re-assigned however I seriously do not think 5 veteran systems are needed, I mean, will a unit even get to the 5th system, and then whats the differance between a unit on level 4 and level 5 between a slightly more powerfull weapon?

I think the current Normal - Veteran - Elite system works fine, each level can easily be different from the last making the changes much more noticeable, as long as the veteran / elite system is easily and widely customiseable then thats fine.

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DragonFly
Cyborg Soldier


Joined: 02 Jun 2007
Location: England

PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i put 5 in as an example. If you make it a hard coded limit like TS has now then someone will always want more.

If it's coded correctly there is no reason why A unit can't have 1 level or 200.

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Judeau
Commander


Joined: 28 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

this sounds plausible, good idea

but why not have stuff like PrimaryWeapon1 = etc

it would , i think, be a bit easier to use that your level2 = {
}

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DragonFly
Cyborg Soldier


Joined: 02 Jun 2007
Location: England

PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

true and as (well i'm presumeing this to be true) black space is ignored indenting could be used to make it more readable eg.
Code:

Primary=Minigun
 Primary2=Minigun2
  Primary3=Minigun3
   Primary4=Minigun4
   Secondary4=HandGrenade
    Primary5=Minigun5
    Secondary5=HandGrenade5


I suppose it comes down to A: which one is easyist to program and B: which one is generaly prefered.

I personally think both my way and the above would work well as it allows an undfined number of levels and for basicly all the tags to be affected.

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Judeau
Commander


Joined: 28 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

DragonFly wrote:
true and as (well i'm presumeing this to be true) black space is ignored indenting could be used to make it more readable eg.
Code:

Primary=Minigun
 Primary2=Minigun2
  Primary3=Minigun3
   Primary4=Minigun4
   Secondary4=HandGrenade
    Primary5=Minigun5
    Secondary5=HandGrenade5


I suppose it comes down to A: which one is easyist to program and B: which one is generaly prefered.

I personally think both my way and the above would work well as it allows an undfined number of levels and for basicly all the tags to be affected.


indeed, my ini-parser handles that well

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OmegaBolt
President


Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Location: York, England

PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well sure thats good for new weapons that come with veterancy etc, but what about strength, speed, armour, ability to cloak etc?

I think DragonFly's first suggestion was better because that way you could do, for example:

Level2=
{
Cloaked=yes
Amour=superuberconcrete
}

etc, you could even allow the Image tag there so we can make it look different and PhysicalSize, ThreatPosed etc so it can really change and evolve during gameplay. Evolve... yes, it would be an awesome feature for "living" sides and even Tiberium creatures.

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DragonFly
Cyborg Soldier


Joined: 02 Jun 2007
Location: England

PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Code:

[E1]
Image1=E1
 Image5=E1ELITE
Name1=Light Infantry
Primary1=Minigun1
 Primary2=Minigun2
  Primary3=Minigun3
   Primary4=Minigun4
   Secondary4=HandGrenade
    Primary5=Minigun5
    Secondary4=HandGrenade2
Strength1=125
 Strength2=150
  Strength3=175
   Strength4=200
    Strength5=250
Points1=5
 Points2=6
  Points3=8
   Points4=10
    Points5=15
ThreatPosed1=10
 ThreatPosed2=11
  ThreatPosed3=13
   ThreatPosed4=15
    ThreatPosed5=18
 Scatter2=Yes
 SelfHealing5=Yes
Armor1=none
Sight1=5
Speed1=5
CrushSound1=SQUISH6
VoiceSelect1=15-I000,15-I004,15-I012,15-I048
VoiceMove1=15-I018,15-I024,15-I044
VoiceAttack1=15-I044,15-I050,15-I044,15-I046
VoiceFeedback1=15-I058,15-I064
VoiceDie1=DEDMAN1,DEDMAN2,DEDMAN2,DEDMAN4,DEDMAN5,DEDMAN6
ImmuneToVeins1=yes

;These can't really be upgraded
Prerequisite=BARRACKS
Locomotor={4A582744-9839-11d1-B709-00A024DDAFD1}
PhysicalSize=1
MovementZone=Infantry
Owner=GDI,Nod
Cost=120
TechLevel=1
Category=Soldier
Pip=green

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OmegaBolt
President


Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Location: York, England

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Your other way was a lot cleaner, and it means that Judeau doesnt have to add all those separate tags that basically do the same thing. Plus I bet it would be simpler to add more Level1= sections giving us just about as many veterancy levels as we want.

As a side note, Pip and PhysicalSize should be changable. A class 'white' unit might upgrade with veterancy to a class 'red' unit. And same with size, a double barrelled tank might upgrade into a quad barrelled tank with 4 engines and 6 tracks so it wouldnt be the same size.

Furthermore, perhaps Locomotor could be changed. It could upgrade with ability to fly, the ability to go subterranean or turn amphibious. Your first way means the possibilties are almost limitless.

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Judeau
Commander


Joined: 28 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

OmegaBolt wrote:
Your other way was a lot cleaner, and it means that Judeau doesnt have to add all those separate tags that basically do the same thing. Plus I bet it would be simpler to add more Level1= sections giving us just about as many veterancy levels as we want.

As a side note, Pip and PhysicalSize should be changable. A class 'white' unit might upgrade with veterancy to a class 'red' unit. And same with size, a double barrelled tank might upgrade into a quad barrelled tank with 4 engines and 6 tracks so it wouldnt be the same size.

Furthermore, perhaps Locomotor could be changed. It could upgrade with ability to fly, the ability to go subterranean or turn amphibious. Your first way means the possibilties are almost limitless.


i was the one who suggested the primary2-3-4-5 way

simply said
you could use Image=NORMAL
Image2=UPGRADED

Locomotor = Hover
Locomotor2 = Fly

get it now ?

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DragonFly
Cyborg Soldier


Joined: 02 Jun 2007
Location: England

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

depending on the way the game is coded i see no reason why the tags couldn't be read as:

<TAG><LEVEL>=<VALUE>
Eg
Primary1=Mnigun

Due to comment lines and indenting the actaul layout isn't really an issue here. For example heres a method similer to my 1st suggestion.
Code:

[E1]
Image1=E1
Points1=5
Name1=Light Infantry
Primary1=Minigun1
Strength1=125
ThreatPosed1=10
Armor1=none
Sight1=5
Speed1=5
CrushSound1=SQUISH6
VoiceSelect1=15-I000,15-I004,15-I012,15-I048
VoiceMove1=15-I018,15-I024,15-I044
VoiceAttack1=15-I044,15-I050,15-I044,15-I046
VoiceFeedback1=15-I058,15-I064
VoiceDie1=DEDMAN1,DEDMAN2,DEDMAN2,DEDMAN4,DEDMAN5,DEDMAN6ImmuneToVeins1=yes
Pip1=green
Locomotor1={4A582744-9839-11d1-B709-00A024DDAFD1}
PhysicalSize1=1
MovementZone1=Infantry
Prerequisite1=BARRACKS
Owner1=GDI,Nod
Cost1=120
TechLevel1=1
Category1=Soldier

;Level2
 Primary2=Minigun2
 Strength2=150
 Points2=6
 ThreatPosed2=11
 Scatter2=Yes

;Level3
   Points3=8
   Primary3=Minigun3
   Strength3=175
   ThreatPosed3=13

;Level4
    Primary4=Minigun4
    Secondary4=HandGrenade
    Strength4=200
    Points4=10
    ThreatPosed4=15

;Level5
     Primary5=Minigun5
     Secondary4=HandGrenade2
     Strength5=250
     Points5=15
     ThreatPosed5=18
     SelfHealing5=Yes
     Image5=E1ELITE


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DeathRay2K
Commander


Joined: 01 Sep 2002
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Personally, I prefer the levelX={ ... } method myself. It just seems cleaner to me.

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Kiith-Sa
Rocket Cyborg


Joined: 26 Oct 2004

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Same here.

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Judeau
Commander


Joined: 28 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kiith-Sa wrote:
Same here.

heh, though, one problem with that, is that it'd need some troublesome extra ini reading code for a minimal advantage

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Kiith-Sa
Rocket Cyborg


Joined: 26 Oct 2004

PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah, I thought that might be the reason #Tongue

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ChielScape
General


Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Location: In ur BIOS, Steeln ur Megahurtz!

PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

DragonFly wrote:
depending on the way the game is coded i see no reason why the tags couldn't be read as:

<TAG><LEVEL>=<VALUE>
Eg
Primary1=Mnigun

Due to comment lines and indenting the actaul layout isn't really an issue here. For example heres a method similer to my 1st suggestion.
Code:

[E1]
Image1=E1
Points1=5
Name1=Light Infantry
Primary1=Minigun1
Strength1=125
ThreatPosed1=10
Armor1=none
Sight1=5
Speed1=5
CrushSound1=SQUISH6
VoiceSelect1=15-I000,15-I004,15-I012,15-I048
VoiceMove1=15-I018,15-I024,15-I044
VoiceAttack1=15-I044,15-I050,15-I044,15-I046
VoiceFeedback1=15-I058,15-I064
VoiceDie1=DEDMAN1,DEDMAN2,DEDMAN2,DEDMAN4,DEDMAN5,DEDMAN6ImmuneToVeins1=yes
Pip1=green
Locomotor1={4A582744-9839-11d1-B709-00A024DDAFD1}
PhysicalSize1=1
MovementZone1=Infantry
Prerequisite1=BARRACKS
Owner1=GDI,Nod
Cost1=120
TechLevel1=1
Category1=Soldier

;Level2
 Primary2=Minigun2
 Strength2=150
 Points2=6
 ThreatPosed2=11
 Scatter2=Yes

;Level3
   Points3=8
   Primary3=Minigun3
   Strength3=175
   ThreatPosed3=13

;Level4
    Primary4=Minigun4
    Secondary4=HandGrenade
    Strength4=200
    Points4=10
    ThreatPosed4=15

;Level5
     Primary5=Minigun5
     Secondary4=HandGrenade2
     Strength5=250
     Points5=15
     ThreatPosed5=18
     SelfHealing5=Yes
     Image5=E1ELITE



i like this one.

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DeathRay2K
Commander


Joined: 01 Sep 2002
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The main reason I'm against that is that there are going to be messy coders, who are going to use them like this:

Code:

[E1]
Image1=E1
Points1=5
Name1=Light Infantry
Primary1=Minigun1
ThreatPosed5=18
Strength1=125
Primary3=Minigun3
Points2=6
ThreatPosed2=11
Strength4=200
ThreatPosed1=10
Secondary4=HandGrenade2
Armor1=none
Sight1=5
Primary2=Minigun2
Points5=15
Speed1=5
CrushSound1=SQUISH6
Strength3=175
Points3=8
ThreatPosed4=15
Points4=10
VoiceSelect1=15-I000,15-I004,15-I012,15-I048
VoiceMove1=15-I018,15-I024,15-I044
VoiceAttack1=15-I044,15-I050,15-I044,15-I046
VoiceFeedback1=15-I058,15-I064
Primary4=Minigun4
VoiceDie1=DEDMAN1,DEDMAN2,DEDMAN2,DEDMAN4,DEDMAN5,DEDMAN6ImmuneToVeins1=yes
Pip1=green
Image5=E1ELITE
Scatter2=Yes
Strength5=250
Locomotor1={4A582744-9839-11d1-B709-00A024DDAFD1}
PhysicalSize1=1
MovementZone1=Infantry
Prerequisite1=BARRACKS
ThreatPosed3=13
Owner1=GDI,Nod
Secondary4=HandGrenade
SelfHealing5=Yes
Cost1=120
TechLevel1=1
Strength2=150
Category1=Soldier
Primary5=Minigun5


The other method forces at least some modicum of organisation.

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DragonFly
Cyborg Soldier


Joined: 02 Jun 2007
Location: England

PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mayby. But not all code will go into the final product so it isn't that hard to say if it doesn't meet certain minimun standard it won't be incorporated.

eg: Must be in a certain style. Anything that isn't obious must be commented etc.

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DeathRay2K
Commander


Joined: 01 Sep 2002
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I was referring more to mods than to official inis.

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Judeau
Commander


Joined: 28 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

DeathRay2K wrote:
I was referring more to mods than to official inis.


I understand your concerns, however,I think bad ini coding is the modder's responsibility, I simply allow more stuff.

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Dupl3xxx
Commander


Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Location: somewhere south of the north pole

PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

DragonFly's method looks great. But about loco's, why not kill that tag, and replace it with sometinhg like:

AdvanceMoveType=yes
{
Hover=no
Subterain=yes
Water=no
Ground=yes
Fly=yes
VTOL=yes
Submarine=no
Teleport=no
}

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DragonFly
Cyborg Soldier


Joined: 02 Jun 2007
Location: England

PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

My suggestion wasn't realted to the function of percific tags so might be better to create a new topic.

Problem is alot of them can't work together. (air and hover, air and water, fly and ground etc)

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