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 Forum index » Other Projects » Alpha Projects » Command and Conquer: Rewire
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Gangster
Commander


Joined: 11 Jun 2004
Location: Moscow, Russia

PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:47 pm    Post subject:   Alpha Reply with quote

http://sourceforge.net/projects/tsrewire/files/Build%200.0.4/

Here is a link to place where latest alpha is. I dont have any much time for modding these days to get RW to finish and i have to do something with it. Its up to you to deside play the mod or leave it. Once i ll be able to, i ll return to mod and to ppm again. Untill then, bye Smile

Here is a list of people who have helped me with mod all this time:

Hyper: original founder and good man
DonutArnold: original founder and moddeler
ronco: voxeler
SMIFFGIG: quality controler, TS expert
Apollo: coder
Regulus: moddeler
Katz: inspirator and good friend
Aro: terrain artist
Crimsonum: voxeler

I d like to specialy thank: Big Jah, Muldrake, Morpher, SaneDistruption, vefbl4, Merophage, Speeder, blubb, area52, HolyMaster, Rly_Big_Tank, Shur for beening near by all this years, helping with usefull advices, and good words.


Thanks to Ares(RockPatch, Npatch) developers, especialy to Renegade, DCoder, pd, VK. You guy did (and continue doing) awesome job, thank you.

And thanks to Banshee, and all ppm moderators. Thank you for this forum, wich have become a home for me and my stuff.

PS ah, yes, if any one want to keep RW alive with things like: fixing bugs, fixing AI, with new maps, moddling\rendering job or terraing editing. RW is open source since now and for ever.

----

To play mod you need only build004.rar and latest Ares build
Sounds.rar hold all TS sounds.
FAData holds all ini files requred for mapping
Cache.mix is just workaround for fixing FA palette problem. Not requr
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Morpher
General


Joined: 28 Jan 2005

PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shame to see you leave Gangster, and a shame we never got to see you finish this awesome project, hopefully you'll stay in touch?
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SMIFFGIG
General


Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: Great Britain

PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:40 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

No way this really sucks
my reasons to visit PPM has just massively decreased Sad
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Crimsonum
Seth


Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Location: The fine land of Finland

PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cya Gangster, it was a good time when it lasted.
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Alex06
Commander


Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think he's leaving forever, just that he's busy and all. #Tongue

Also, is it me, or is this mod unplayable? Keeps giving an IE when it loads a map.

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TiberFCSL
Cyborg Artillery


Joined: 10 Nov 2006

PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't run the mod, I get a "fatal error" Sad
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Alex06
Commander


Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get a fatal error when I get into a match...

EDIT: Is it possible that this and Ares don't work with cracked gamemd's or the TFD version of the game?
It's impossible for me to insert a disc (my drive eats discs and refuses to read them), so before any of you go on a rant about piracy; I bought this game 3 times, I'll just say, don't judge me.

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TiberFCSL
Cyborg Artillery


Joined: 10 Nov 2006

PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, I'm mistaken, I have the same problem as you!!!!!
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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope this quick tutorial from Fen answers some of your doubts.

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m7
Commander


Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Location: The Fang

PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uh, Ares works as a no-cd so why don't you just use the -CD command on your Ares launching .bat?
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DonutArnold
General


Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, it was quite fun to work with this project while it was active. Thanks for your time Gangster! Smile

Also, since this project goes open source I might aswell release all the models I have modelled for this project then...

EDIT: Linky linky http://ppmsite.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31257

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Gangster
Commander


Joined: 11 Jun 2004
Location: Moscow, Russia

PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
IE when it loads a map

Quote:
fatal error when I get into a match

Quote:
I have the same problem as you


RW doent support YR maps. Oops. I guess this is a reason.
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Krow
Commander


Joined: 30 Jan 2010
Location: Malaysia

PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Soooo, the assets are okay to be used Gangster? Cause you said it's open source now.
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Deformat
Defense Minister


Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Location: Bucharest,Romania Posts:29240348568

PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, duh, they are usable.

A real pity to see you going. You'll be missed.

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Alex06
Commander


Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gangster wrote:
Quote:
IE when it loads a map

Quote:
fatal error when I get into a match

Quote:
I have the same problem as you


RW doent support YR maps. Oops. I guess this is a reason.

Do you have some kind of map that you made, that we could use, then? #Tongue

By the way, I tried the cache.mix fix, and it doesn't seem to work, the palette is still messed up in FA2. I placed the file both in FA2 and the RA2 directories...

m7 wrote:
Uh, Ares works as a no-cd so why don't you just use the -CD command on your Ares launching .bat?

Didn't know that. Thanks.

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Alex06
Commander


Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Found the issue! It was the GDI light infantry's weapon.

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ApolloTD
Commander


Joined: 19 Nov 2003

PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shame and new building don't still have their own buildups apart from missing ones to replace TS originals present...

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TiberFCSL
Cyborg Artillery


Joined: 10 Nov 2006

PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alex, please tell us how to fix it!!! Can't wait to play this!!!!
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Alex06
Commander


Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TiberFCSL wrote:
Alex, please tell us how to fix it!!! Can't wait to play this!!!!

I already told you. Create a custom map. Go to skirmish, and then to select map and random map generator (or whatever it's called). Make a temperate map, that has no urban areas, and use that. You have to set to starting units amount to 0, and you have to avoid training light infantry (E1), selling structures, and destroying anything. As soon as the game tries to spawn an "E1", it can't find the proper warhead for its weapon, and, as a result, the game crashes.

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Death Cultist
Scorpion Sniper


Joined: 28 Apr 2009
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cant we just edit the rules and add the warhead?
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Alex06
Commander


Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Death Cultist wrote:
Cant we just edit the rules and add the warhead?

That is also another solution.

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m7
Commander


Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Location: The Fang

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mod never crashed for me Alex06.
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Alex06
Commander


Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

m7 wrote:
Mod never crashed for me Alex06.

That's odd...

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TiberFCSL
Cyborg Artillery


Joined: 10 Nov 2006

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So everything reduces to delete a ";" in rulesmd.ini to fix it?
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Deformat
Defense Minister


Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Location: Bucharest,Romania Posts:29240348568

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

m7 wrote:
Mod never crashed for me Alex06.


Same.

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Gangster
Commander


Joined: 11 Jun 2004
Location: Moscow, Russia

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi. A hotfix for recently released Alpa is now available for DL.


    Alpha Hotfix1 changes:

    Added a first official RW map "First Encounter"
    Added missing animation for CY
    Added missing frames for GDI Service Depot
    Added missind animation for Advanced Power Plant
    Added missind animation for Obelisk of Light
    Added some missind animation for Refineries, still not full
    Restored original price and prerequisites for GDI Service Depot
    Restored original price and prerequisites for Stealth Generator
    Fixed animation for GDI Hologram
    Fixed EMP Cannon weapon. (Works different from TS version)
    Fixed Devils Tongue weapon (Works different from TS version)
    Added missing Misc nimations (water explosion, gathering animation, dig)
    Invisible TickTank clone now can't be gathered form crates.
    and a lot of minor fixes.


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SMIFFGIG
General


Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: Great Britain

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

such a shame to see this mod go

maybe some sort of framework could be setup so that it can be continued by the community...
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TiberFCSL
Cyborg Artillery


Joined: 10 Nov 2006

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you sure he won't be continuing doing this mod? Or there will be less updates?
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Gangster
Commander


Joined: 11 Jun 2004
Location: Moscow, Russia

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There will be next updates from time to time, but i don't know when
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CCHyper
Defense Minister


Joined: 07 Apr 2005

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gangster, could you upload your models of what you did? And perhaps any other info?

Also, added you on Facebook, if you use it?

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Gangster
Commander


Joined: 11 Jun 2004
Location: Moscow, Russia

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3d Models now could be taken from here, in case if someone willing to use it.
https://sourceforge.net/projects/tsrewire/files/3d%20Models/

Again, package is not full, most of my revisions were lost for ever. So, say, if some one willing to do a makeup animation for Hand of Nod (or any other early) structure, he will have to edit Donut's stuff again.

Package also contain scene called Enviroment, with lighting setup i've used for rendering.

Civilian buildings were created by Regulus so i won't release anything without his premission
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Alex06
Commander


Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gangster wrote:
Civilian buildings were created by Regulus so i won't release anything without his premission

You should ask him, then. #Tongue

Also, what happened to these?:





Have they been lost forever? I checked the mod's mix files, and I can't seem to find them anywhere inside...

EDIT: And what happened to the unit lights?

Last edited by Alex06 on Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:34 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyörgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No offense but you shouldn't rehost beta Ares versions, y'know. They are uhm.... PRIVATE BETA versions for a reason.
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Alex06
Commander


Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graion Dilach wrote:
No offense but you shouldn't rehost beta Ares versions, y'know. They are uhm.... PRIVATE BETA versions for a reason.

I don't see what the big deal is. It's not as if it's meant to be an actual game. It's just a patch for an old game, to enable new features.

And I doubt Gangster would post this without first asking. He said he wouldn't post the models for the civilian buildings without getting permission from Regulus.

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Gangster
Commander


Joined: 11 Jun 2004
Location: Moscow, Russia

PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
No offense but you shouldn't rehost beta Ares versions, y'know. They are uhm.... PRIVATE BETA versions for a reason.


Mod was a place for testing every new Ares features for some time and i don't want roll everything back to 0.1.All Ares revisions can be downloaded freely by anyone from svn. Link for every new version always given as soon as new feature been coded. But I have found this all is a bit complicated for thouse who is not familiar with Ares at all. Link to official site was given but this mirror is actually there for better compatibility.

Anyway, if this is violates some legal rights, I am asking Ares team to do an exclusion, and allow me always host a version on which Mod was built. Otherwise i will remove this mirror immediately.


Quote:
Also, what happened to these?


Everything is in place. Check carfully.
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TiberFCSL
Cyborg Artillery


Joined: 10 Nov 2006

PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anybody know how I can view .MAX files without having 3d Studio? Or at least a program that converts .MAX files into something more easy to read? (like 3ds or w3d)???
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Alex06
Commander


Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gangster wrote:
Everything is in place. Check carfully.

The latest release does. Or maybe I just missed them in the old one. O_o
Though the Nod Repair Depot is still missing. #Tongue

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daTS
Mr. Moosey


Joined: 18 Feb 2005
Location: Star Kingdom of Manticore

PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TiberFCSL wrote:
Does anybody know how I can view .MAX files without having 3d Studio? Or at least a program that converts .MAX files into something more easy to read? (like 3ds or w3d)???


Sadly, it's not possible without 3DS Max. However, if you've got the room on your hard drive, and you aren't worried about tech support, I can hook you up with 3DS Max
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Edge
Grenadier


Joined: 26 Oct 2003

PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also if you go to college, you can sign up at their site and get 3ds max for educational purposes.

http://students.autodesk.com/

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Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyörgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alex06 wrote:
Graion Dilach wrote:
No offense but you shouldn't rehost beta Ares versions, y'know. They are uhm.... PRIVATE BETA versions for a reason.

I don't see what the big deal is. It's not as if it's meant to be an actual game. It's just a patch for an old game, to enable new features.

And I doubt Gangster would post this without first asking. He said he wouldn't post the models for the civilian buildings without getting permission from Regulus.


STFU. If Gangster would've asked it, that Ares beta wouldn't get in. Because there is no exception. Public releases can only use public versions. If you would cooperate with the Big Three to achieve a bugfree patch you would understand. We are not VK to get more and more bugs. And we have testers to clean up the product before you people get that.

Gangster wrote:

Mod was a place for testing every new Ares features for some time and i don't want roll everything back to 0.1.All Ares revisions can be downloaded freely by anyone from svn. Link for every new version always given as soon as new feature been coded. But I have found this all is a bit complicated for thouse who is not familiar with Ares at all. Link to official site was given but this mirror is actually there for better compatibility.

Anyway, if this is violates some legal rights, I am asking Ares team to do an exclusion, and allow me always host a version on which Mod was built. Otherwise i will remove this mirror immediately.


http://forums.renegadeprojects.com/showthread.php?tid=1684

Insolent fool. IT IS AIMED TO BE COMPLICATED. For your private beta testers you can redistribute Ares... BUT YOU CAN'T SHARE IT THE PUBLIC. Not in any way. If you're that intelligent to get it on your own, be happy, if you can't, it's useless for you.

If you wouldn't be a frickin freeleacher, you would know it. There are no exceptions.

Final War got released without an Ares version FOR THIS EXACT SAME REASON.

Nice to know that while I care about this project and I try to commit as much time as I can for the community to be it a quality product, a member of this community just abuses it. And another tries to defend him. Funny. When Ren said there's not enough feedback, neither of you shown up to say something, while I tested 5 mods side-by-side to generate feedback.

If you know nothing, than take your steps accordingly.

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Gangster
Commander


Joined: 11 Jun 2004
Location: Moscow, Russia

PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now you STUF. Who are you to come to my place and calling me fool.
Blame your security, you project manager or somebody else. For the year of using it I havn't seen any note that sharing betas are illegal. It just was there, always ready for use. Thanks for you hard-work, I appreciate that, but working on TC not the easiest job too. When i saw bug i did reports like every body else. But if it was public you guys could get your feedback more often.

Anyway mirror was deleted. Now, get the f*ck out.
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Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyörgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I doubt it's bigger than assisting Speeder with MO, doing own PCvas a one-man project and coding new features aiming for Ares 0.3 at the same time.

You know... Ares is about the forums, too, not just merely the bugtracker. Or if you want to be entirely up-to-date, it's also IRC.

Whoever not realizing this is certainly an insolent fool since the topic I linked wasn't written on yesterday. I guess you want to do good stuff, but this isn't the way to do that.

Also an old quote within the Testing Area, which is mainly applies to this situation.

Renegade on 04-14-2010, 02:32 wrote:

Two things to point out here:

  1. The whole idea of testing Ares in private before making it public is not having the unstable builds in wide-spread, public use. Crying out loud "they're easy to find!!" in the news comments on the official Ares site kind of undermines that.
  2. In addition, and very much more likely after episodes like this, nothing stops us from putting a lock on the unstable builds.

We don't exactly want to do the latter, as it means more work for us, but careless statements like the ones above, which can lead to a run on the binary which basically turns the testers' build into a public build, may not leave us a choice.

Untested software has loads of bugs. NPatch was the primary example of that.
What exactly do you think will happen if the army of n00bs at a certain other forum figures out how to get the test builds? They'll all ignore/be too dumb to grasp the distinction between "stable" and "unstable", will treat the "secret" test builds like general public release builds, and then run their mouths about how Ares is a buggy piece of shit like NPatch, proclaim that we are hypocrites for lambasting VK for his amount of bugs, and conclude that, since all their stuff already uses NPatch, and Ares is just as buggy, there's no point in switching.
Then once the news come that Ares was actually publicly released, they'll hog the comments, warning people not to download Ares, since they already tried it and it's too buggy to use.
And henceforth, in the bi-monthly "Which should I choose: RP, NP or Ares?" thread, everyone will tell people to use NPatch, since both Ares and NPatch are buggy, but NPatch has more features.


There is a reason we make a distinction between test versions and public versions. If you blur that distinction, we'll have to take measures to enforce it.
Keep that in mind next time you feel the need to boast about how easy to find the test builds are.

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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graion, there are nicer and... gentle ways to express that information. This kind of behaviour wil only cause you trouble.

It's notorious that Gangster shouldn't induce people to report bugs from an alpha/testing version, however, alpha versions of Ares are publicly available by their public SVN system. You can go there and download the latest alpha, in the same way you can grab the latest Voxel Section Editor III beta.


So, here's the deal:


If you play Rewire beta, report your bugs to Gangster only. The choice of using a testing version of Ares is sole responsibility from Gangster. Therefore, it's up to him to distinguish bugs from his mod and from Ares and report the bugs from Ares for the Ares development team.

Last edited by Banshee on Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:02 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Renegade
Cyborg Artillery


Joined: 21 May 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany

PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can we ztyping stop linking to the goddamn svn now?
I am in the process of writing a new post to address this.
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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, I've removed the link, but you should check your site (strategy-x.com) which still links it.

By the way, why are you hiding it if you are barely able to get testers? I've tried to make VXLSE III and OS SHP Builder testing private and the consequences were similar to what you are facing with Ares. People ask to test it, most of them don't report anything or stop 5 minutes later and, if much, one person reports bugs until they get tired few months later.

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Renegade
Cyborg Artillery


Joined: 21 May 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany

PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This way, we have no testers and no trouble with morons assuming it to be the real deal.
If we advertised it publicly, we'd still have no testers and would have to deal with morons running into issues with testing versions they didn't grasp were never meant to be stable.

It's not so much that we're trying to hide the builds (you will notice "secret" is in quotes up there), it's more natural selection - if you're not smart enough to find the builds, you're probably too stupid to grasp how to treat them anyway.

Unfortunately, reckless advertising like this thread has destroyed that effect over time, and these days, it's mostly a question of whether damage control or lockdown take less effort. And with every incident like this, a lockdown looks more inviting.


If we could trust everyone in the community to understand the difference between "stable" and "not stable", it wouldn't be a big deal. But you know as well as I do that 85% of players would selectively read "Ares [...] new version [...] new features" and then start yelling once the game crashes.

Quite frankly, there are just too many stupid people to openly embrace the testing builds.




P.S.: Got PHP/MySQL errors when posting this message; sent them to webmaster@ppm as instructed by the server. If you don't have that address set up, poke me on MSN and I'll pastebin the errors.
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Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyörgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah because it's certainly better to listen rioting of bad quality which ends with a bad reputation, then to wait and deliver a good product which actually WORKS.

And regarding my policy. I don't really care about my status in PPM. I hate stupidity. I seen enough here. Funny that a year ago I was nobody, who were just a silent reader on Revora. After I found the SVN alone, without any help... I started to get back to YR. I still care about YR, I picked up C++ for Ares. Ares motivates me to finish computer science and engineering ASAP.

And I also been following RenProj IRC. Maybe I learnt too much from them, but honestly... in this year, my care about Ares gave me a pretty nice career. I owe them and I know they don't really care about this page. Still, I hang with this community.

I like helping, but I also like respecting the stuff I'm working with and reading the rules, getting all information before the decision. I am pretty furious for the community for what they do with Ares, since it appears that now everybody spreads the SVN, yet nobody reports back. Hell, it's start of the armageddon when people like MasterHaosis gets betas. And I can count all the people who care about the project in one hand.

Less than a month ago I was under pressure because of no testing feedback, now I see that Ares gets leaked. If that's respect from a guy who says he "did some test" but it's clean for me due that I don't really remember activity from him neither on the forums neither on the tracker.... than yes, I consider it insolence. No matter who does this, it's still a freakin abuse, and hell... it was told numerous times to not do that.

The SVN is an IQ test. If you're enough smart, then take your pride. If you're not... then you probably won't understand that.

The sad thing for you, being the main reason for my upset is that that's already in the deck that I end up being alone as Ares developer. I don't want that, because I still have a lot to learn and in my current state I would just mess up the logics. Yeah, I get touchy about Ares, because I want to aid but every time I did something, sooner or later I got into a dead-end, and I couldn't do much besides a shrug. Because ATM I don't know neither proper OOP neither assembly. What I learnt about OOP was the stuff I did/doing within Ares. I want to learn proper programming, and this is the first place I actually see/doing something more than a primitive course example.

Yes, the community just abuses the project, demotivating all developers which will soon end up having only me. Because I know myself for running it as much as I can to make everybody happy and to save the project. I see the struggle 'cause of this, it took my whole August. I willingly participated taking the responsibility for Ares... so yes, I'm gonna take it serious.

The policy isn't my decision, but since I joined, I accepted. And I respect it that enough to enforce it even if I'm on a foreign place. Because I care. And this is just that damned simple.

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m7
Commander


Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Location: The Fang

PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Banshee, I can't say that you have any rights to question the activity of the Ares development cycle considering you're about the same when it comes to administrators at PPM.

This entire "Defend Gangster for leaking Ares because he did a cool mod" is total bullshit. Leaks are leaks, I sure as hell remember getting banned for leaking a mod.

I will be in support of locked SVNs and hidden betas due to this debacle, and will be getting my mod testers special Ares access.
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Orac
President


Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with the thinking minority. He could very easily have just linked to Ares 0.1 and explained that some features would not function due to the mod having been developed based on Ares 0.2 - there was no reason to leak a test build.

Locking the SVN seems like a sensible option, since there's honestly no good reason for the majority to even want internal builds.

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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did not defend Gangster's action. He was wrong for not reading the rules of the project and spreading something he didn't have to spread. What I did in my post was different. I'v'e complained at Graion's "STFU" attitude and I wasn't aware that finding the SVN was a small part of the procedure to select testers.


Graion Dilach wrote:
And regarding my policy. I don't really care about my status in PPM. I hate stupidity. I seen enough here.


Stupidity exists everywhere, specially in our minds. Deal with it. It's natural and everybody acts stupid many times in their lives. But a stupid action from someone else doesn't give you the right to be hostile and agressive to anyone. Agressive (and hostile) actions against what you claim to be stupid is stupidity from you. So, please, don't do it anywhere. If you really hate stupidity, you'll feel better by not spreading it to the rest of the world Wink.


Renegade wrote:
This way, we have no testers and no trouble with morons assuming it to be the real deal.
If we advertised it publicly, we'd still have no testers and would have to deal with morons running into issues with testing versions they didn't grasp were never meant to be stable.


Ok. If that's your opinion, I respect it. It's not very far from mine, except that you have a higher focus on getting rid of bad issue reports.

I think you have the right to ignore issues reported by those who does not know how to report an issue. I also think that, if you make Ares testing more accessible, you guys would have few good testers because there are some promising mods that would make a good use of Ares in their development and they would rely on a functional project.

Once in a while, VXLSE III and OS SHP Builder gets some important issues reported by well known modders, although we don't have a dedicated set of testers. If you are looking for it, even with your stricter policies, I don't think you wil find it. Each person has different interests and they'll only report bugs for you when it is interesting for them to do it. Otherwise, they'll have other priorities with their own mods.



If you advertise Ares beta testing to the mods that have potential to provide some good feedback, you may get some ocasional good feedback, but you shouldn't rely on them alone to keep developping the program. People want you to finish Ares 0.2 and they'll certainly be very happy when it gets released, but there are several people that would priorize other things in their life, unfortunately. And we, as developpers, have to know how to deal with it, instead of relying on a small group of people.


Graion Dilach wrote:
I like helping, but I also like respecting the stuff I'm working with and reading the rules, getting all information before the decision. I am pretty furious for the community for what they do with Ares, since it appears that now everybody spreads the SVN, yet nobody reports back.


We all do like to be respected and have our work respected. But I think that Renegade's strict testing policies propositally scares some of the testers. That and the fear of some people from being 'bashed to death' and 'labeled as n00bs' in an environment that holds higher expectations from those who join it.


Graion Dilach wrote:
Hell, it's start of the armageddon when people like MasterHaosis gets betas. And I can count all the people who care about the project in one hand.


I do believe that humans have something called brain. It's a complex system that has a lot of features. One of the best features is the ability to learn things and adaptation to hostile environments. Of course, some minds are (much) slower to learn certain things or to adapt to certain situations, but, sometimes, they need time, patience and some instructions.


Graion Dilach wrote:
The sad thing for you, being the main reason for my upset is that that's already in the deck that I end up being alone as Ares developer. I don't want that, because I still have a lot to learn and in my current state I would just mess up the logics. Yeah, I get touchy about Ares, because I want to aid but every time I did something, sooner or later I got into a dead-end, and I couldn't do much besides a shrug. Because ATM I don't know neither proper OOP neither assembly. What I learnt about OOP was the stuff I did/doing within Ares. I want to learn proper programming, and this is the first place I actually see/doing something more than a primitive course example.

Yes, the community just abuses the project, demotivating all developers which will soon end up having only me. Because I know myself for running it as much as I can to make everybody happy and to save the project. I see the struggle 'cause of this, it took my whole August. I willingly participated taking the responsibility for Ares... so yes, I'm gonna take it serious.


You guys have very high expectations from the community, which doesn't fit the reality.

The reality is that each person have a different knowledge of things, different objectives and priorities and they don't have the time to do everyting they wanted to do in the speed they want. Most people do not know how to organize their time (me included).

So, even if many of them like your projects and would like to help it, Ares won't be a priority for them.

In short, you should value your efforts and achievements and find more people who would have the potential to spend a small part of their time to support Ares in any way, rather than hiding yourselves from the rest of the world because the current public doesn't meet your expectations.

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