Yeah, I would also like to see some of TS features into Ares. Not just see, to use them.
-Tiberium Heal/Damage is a must
-Visceroids
-Good damn Veinhole Monster and veins!
-Cyborg berserk
-That weed eater or whatever, specific type of harvester which needs to collect specific amount of tiberium into that building, so building can start producing superweapon. That would be fantastic. For example to create some type of nuke, you would need 2000$ in ore your harvesters to unload int on that building. Once you collect such, building begin production of superweapon.
Of course, there is also some thing, you will need Ammo= to show how many ore/tiberium did you collect.
And yes, I agree with Lin Kuei Ominae about Silos ways of usage.
Also, I specially agree with LKO and others about merging two games into one that would be better idea and at least help into ,,surviving" or better to say ,,prolonging life" of TS/RA2 community. Of course that means that TS modders would use YR with Ares instead, but still, that will keep some amount of active modding.
Yes, we can talk about this all day and night, thats not going to happen. Ares developers in past did not care much about TS features people were rquesting even if they were just re-enabling some of broken things such as tiberium damage, drop pods, do not even mean about more complicate things.
But at least we got working and customizing carryals, awesome EMp system and such. _________________ PPM Halloween Season 2021 QUICK_EDIT
They have always been quite adept at alienating a potential audience. _________________ You come for the modding but you stay for the Crap Forum. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:09 pm Post subject:
I'm with Ixonoclast on this one.
Well, Regulus, and all the others out there... I hate TS. There is a reason I don't even play it, and there is a reason I never cared about it.
And I have seen LKO stating that he don't care about how his work pops up for RA2, he won't optimize it for that game.... say, why should I work for something I hate?
I follow TI just due to respect, but never treated that mod serious neither. For me, C&C Reloaded is better TS replica than TS itself. Just because it has no Storage, for example.
Call it alienating, but I don't have time for every little thing and I'll code the ones which I see potential within. Limiting like Storage is not among them. _________________ "If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
=======================
Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more... QUICK_EDIT
Well, Regulus, and all the others out there... I hate TS. There is a reason I don't even play it, and there is a reason I never cared about it.
which one?
The good atmosphere?
The maps which aren't only one or two height levels?
The nice terrain which isn't that bright and single colored that it burns your eyes?
The fact it was done by WW and not EA?
The complex gameplay?
The great story?
Tiberium?
The fact it's the last C&C (after that only simpler and simpler games made for little children)?
The fact it was not cartoonish?
Graion Dilach wrote:
And I have seen LKO stating that he don't care about how his work pops up for RA2, he won't optimize it for that game.... say, why should I work for something I hate?
the last public asset i've made was about 4 years ago. time goes by, people change.
If RA2 becomes useable/moddable, I'm sure I'll release stuff for this game too (i would also consider converting already released stuff if someone wants it).
Graion Dilach wrote:
Call it alienating, but I don't have time for every little thing and I'll code the ones which I see potential within. Limiting like Storage is not among them.
What you call limiting is imo enhancing.
RA2 is the limited game which only relies on pure unit production without any base and resource micromanagement.
I hope you're not the only coder and the Ares team isn't sharing your opinion. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
I agree with Ixnoclast too, however, the problem is that most coders don't flock to projects like this.
In my experience the only way to get help is to create it, and by that I mean you pretty much have to train coders to use your pipeline and what not.
I know *some* C++ and I would be more than willing to help, but it would require someone holding my hand for a while until I got used to it. Which is the problem with most asset creation in mods. I could count only a handful a people that can make SHP buildings and even fewer that are capable of making infantry from 3d. I am sure there are plenty of people who want to learn, but there are very few teachers out there, and those that do know what to do have the "I taught myself, you should learn yourself too" mentality that stamps out the dreams of otherwise ambitious modders. _________________ You come for the modding but you stay for the Crap Forum. QUICK_EDIT
If there is someone wanting to learn to create infantry or buildings, I'm always willing to help him. I'd love to see more people being capable to create SHP buildings and infantry (but no one asks about this in the mediahut).
Though often they stop after a while because they notice how much work has to went in a single building. Or they only produce half-hearted stuff to speed up the process, but which also keeps the quality low, which in turn makes nobody use this and thus demotivates the person to put more work into it and improve things.
Maybe i should make a video during the creation of my next TI building. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:09 pm Post subject:
I seen that behaviour, Regulus. And I think that kills a community. But teaching Ares coding requires tutoring and it's not something you can learn from tutorials.
I am willing to tutor anybody. I have offered it already to many people and there are no exceptions to this statement (except if I don't have time). In my realms, knowledge defines the community and the community benefits if the knowledge is shared.
Besides, I started Ares with only pure C knowledge, I learnt thinking in OOP within it.
Let me rephrase... I am not alienating. I want to help, but I don't see gain in Storage. If someone pops up asking to teach him how to do Storage, I'm willing to do that, but I personally won't code Storage.
Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
The good atmosphere?
Good != dark. I hate dark, call it Starcraft or TS, I don't mind, I hate it. Master of Orion 2 at least had contrast.
Also I have bad eyes, so yea, I do care about contrast and visibility. RA2 passes, TS not. TI even made it worse with the huge explosions if interested.
Quote:
The maps which aren't only one or two height levels?
Never noticed.
Quote:
The nice terrain which isn't that bright and single colored that it burns your eyes?
If you mean the terrain filled with green mess and dark... no thanks. I favor Mooman's tho.
Quote:
The fact it was done by WW and not EA?
This is stupid, it was still WW.
Quote:
The complex gameplay?
Complex as in forest fires turning infantry redundant, Dune-alike pavementing... heck, I wanna play C&C not Dune.
Quote:
The great story?
Watched the vids in the TS mixes, didn't find it interesting. I find Romanov funny. I like funny things.
Quote:
Tiberium?
Don't care. It's good and all, but I never given a point to it.
Quote:
The fact it's the last C&C (after that only simpler and simpler games made for little children)?
What kind of point is this?! I wouldn't call it that simpler tho. There were never buildable navy in Tiberium series. Or was there more ships than what TD had in GDI1?
It maybe got simplified that you can't lose buildspace, money that easily, but I wouldn't call the gameplay simple by any means. I hate XWIS tho for the "Rhinospam everything" aspect as well.
Quote:
The fact it was not cartoonish?
It's not RA3. But if you call this cartoony, you can call TTD and Warcraft 2 cartoony as well.
And I hate TS for the GUI too (set rally point, ok, which button is it) and many other complications. I like some things in TS, tho. I like Cyborgs, I like Cabal, the Amphibious APC logic, railguns.... but on the other hand the Helipad system makes me mad with the "ok, now repair, now rearm, take other away... where are you going now" reason. Also the having 7 explosions in 20 sizes (or in case of TI 50 sizes) is boring. I like variety too. And I see more variety in YR than in TS. Especially with Ares.
I have no interest in micromanagement in most cases.
But I don't care tbh that much. I hate TS and so far the sole TS mod which I like is Mech Wars.
EDIT: and in my case I haven't learn SHPing yet because I can't think in 3D sadly. QUICK_EDIT
Not saying that i'm against silo logic in Ares (to be honest, i don't care whether it will be in or not), but there are more ways to modify game pacing and tempo than relying on silos.
Plus, having only one refinery is both suicide, and very inefficient (especially if you play as Allies). QUICK_EDIT
The maps which aren't only one or two height levels?
I did not notice that too, there are more maps with many levels I think.
Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
The nice terrain which isn't that bright and single colored that it burns your eyes?
Well, yeah, TS has better terrains in some ways, it has nice tiberium lifeforms combinations, but with others hand YR has real life combinations, more theatres, desert, urban, snow, even moon, and animals... it all depends on taste. So both games are same here.
Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
The fact it was done by WW and not EA?
That is absolutely wrong. Westwood made RA2 and YR, even Generals. EA just closed Westwood after they created generals and put their sign on it. Thats why Generals is the last EA's awesome C&C game, because EA did not made it, logically.
Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
The complex gameplay?
I do not know much about that.
Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
The great story?
Well, both of games have great story. Sure, NOD, GDI, mutants, Cabal are awesome, but you have Soviet vs. Alied war here, and even Yuri whose is left you without breath.
Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
Tiberium?
Well, TS has advantage here. Tiberium is much more better than Ore, because whole game is affected by it.
Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
The fact it's the last C&C (after that only simpler and simpler games made for little children)?
The fact it was not cartoonish?
Both of games are too cartoonish.
Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
If RA2 becomes useable/moddable, I'm sure I'll release stuff for this game too (i would also consider converting already released stuff if someone wants it).
What the hell? Just stop here okay.
Accept it or not, survive it or not, but the fact is that YR is far more popular and modded than TS.
First off, many many popular YR mods have/had their own parts (sites) for mods, more than TS has/had. Cannis, Mooman, Mental Omega, Robot Storm, Realoaded and many others (its 3 Am here, I cant atm remember all). Look at YR argentina, and others asset sites, there are far more voxels and shps for RA2 than for TS.
Ah, remember that we are here, in RA2 thread, actually Ares's thread, not in some TS project thread, RA2 has more coders than TS, more fans than TS, all in one, more popular than TS. Why is that? because its more modeable than TS, more people like it and find it more useful than TS.
Even you are advising here that Ares should bring TS features, not TS to bring RA2/Ares features, simply because YR especially with Ares enhancements have much more codes and abilities than TS.
What we can't have now: Tiberium Damage/Heal/chain explosions, berserk cyborgs, silos, special harvester type, ION storms, Limpet Drone, lagless railguns, Veinhole monsters/veins, firest fires, cracking ices, more campaigns, Visceroids, Drop pods, buildings with sensors, tiberium gases.... and remind me what else.
What you can't have now: Third side, more theaters, Mind controls, additional wave, Rad beam, radiations, parasites, electric weapons, iron curtain, force shield, teleports, paratroopers, flak scatters, airstrike, more inf deaths, buildable bunkers, V3 rockets, zepelins, Siege choppers, squid, crazy ivan system, clonning vats, Industrial plant, tesla coil support, psychic sensors, advanced espionage logics, deployable infantry, chrono freezing, mirage tank system, robot tank system, battle fortress, 4 aircraft pads, Ore processor, prism tower system, weather control, spy plane, psychic reveal, psychic waves, virus, gattling system, chaos system, slave miner system, floating disc drain, laser, spinning turret, genetic mutator, psychic dominator, bio reactor, grinder, spy lab, tech machine shops, tech hospitals, tech oil derricks, plus many many Ares's features and ehnancements.
So, RA2 system is far more superior than TS one, and YR can be much more modded than TS.
So instead we all arguing here which game is better, we should try to convince Graion Dilach and AlexB to put some of features you/we want from TS into Ares, if that is possible of course. Arguing about which game is better for modding wont get anywhere, but if we work together, we can get somewhere. At least we can try. So please, avoid those of your famous ,,inferior RA2 bla bla" sentences, instead that we should talk about which TS features we can get into Ares, and try to talk with developers. And then you wonder why is Graion Dilach like that to TS, when you were even worse to RA2. But like you said, times change, people change. So we should all change about that and be united.
Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
I hope you're not the only coder and the Ares team isn't sharing your opinion.
Well I hope too. If I do not like some of TS features, even silos, it doesnot mean that majority or others wont use it. Also, many of TS features I like to see and use in YR, like I said already.
However, Attach Efect is approaching, which can be used for workarounds, and with any luck, AlexB will look to reenable Tiberium Damage/Heal and some thing which we were requesting here, and people were requested long time ago over and over. _________________ PPM Halloween Season 2021 QUICK_EDIT
Let me rephrase... I am not alienating. I want to help, but I don't see gain in Storage.
Every single RA2 to any older C&C total conversion requires it for one and in addition to that it improves gameplay itself by giving players strategies when deciding which building to take out, as mentioned before (do I take out a refinery or a factory? both would have different benefits).
Having no storage system at all only over-simplifies things, which takes away from the gameplay (unless you're a beginner that can't multi-task and only wants to focus on mindlessly spamming units without a worry).
Graion Dilach wrote:
Good != dark. I hate dark, call it Starcraft or TS, I don't mind, I hate it. Master of Orion 2 at least had contrast.
Also I have bad eyes, so yea, I do care about contrast and visibility. RA2 passes, TS not.
Tiberian Sun's atmosphere at least looks the way war should look like; grimmy. RA2 on the other hand looks like a theme park with tanks.
If you have trouble seeing, just turn up the brightness of your monitor.
Graion Dilach wrote:
If you mean the terrain filled with green mess and dark... no thanks.
The "green mess" (tiberium mold) wasn't even there until Firestorm; only a few maps use it and the ones that use it aren't entirely filled with it.
If you think Tiberian Sun's terrain looked to dark, once again, turn your monitor's brightness up. RA2's terrain on the other hand is not only far too bright, it's also quite ugly).
Graion Dilach wrote:
Quote:
The fact it was done by WW and not EA?
This is stupid, it was still WW.
TD, RA1 and TS were made by Westwood Vegas. "Westwood" Pacific made RA2; they were an entirely different development team and they were renamed to EA Pacific shortly after YR's release.
Graion Dilach wrote:
Complex as in forest fires turning infantry redundant, Dune-alike pavementing... heck, I wanna play C&C not Dune.
Forest fires turn infantry redundant? Sounds to me like you're making random assumptions without actual experience. Forest fires only mean you have to avoid a few trees that might be in the way and usually you don't even need to do that because the damage that gets inflicted by them is low enough to be ignored.
Also, in games between experienced players pavement is rarely used to begin with.
Graion Dilach wrote:
Quote:
The great story?
Watched the vids in the TS mixes, didn't find it interesting. I find Romanov funny. I like funny things.
Tiberian Sun's story continues from TD and there's far more to it than watch you see in the videos. Even with just the videos, Tiberian Sun's story is far deeper than RA2's story... And RA2's story was a joke (one I wouldn't pay a wooden nickel for).
Graion Dilach wrote:
Quote:
Tiberium?
Don't care. It's good and all, but I never given a point to it.
And gold randomly laying around in the open for no apparent reason makes perfect sense, of course. At least Tiberium had a plausible explanation behind it.
Graion Dilach wrote:
Quote:
The fact it's the last C&C (after that only simpler and simpler games made for little children)?
What kind of point is this?! I wouldn't call it that simpler tho. There were never buildable navy in Tiberium series. Or was there more ships than what TD had in GDI1?
It maybe got simplified that you can't lose buildspace, money that easily, but I wouldn't call the gameplay simple by any means. I hate XWIS tho for the "Rhinospam everything" aspect as well.
What was meant is that RA2 is simple because of the things you don't need to worry about when attacking or defending your base. Not having to worry about losing your credits because of losing a storage building is just one example.
And the "Rhinospam everything" issue is a result of the simplicity.
Graion Dilach wrote:
Quote:
The fact it was not cartoonish?
It's not RA3. But if you call this cartoony, you can call TTD and Warcraft 2 cartoony as well.
RA3 might be even more cartoonish, but RA2 is still quite cartoonish itself. And yes, Warcraft II is indeed cartoonish as well.
Even RA1 looked far less cartoonish than RA2, despite being that much older.
Graion Dilach wrote:
And I hate TS for the GUI too (set rally point, ok, which button is it) and many other complications.
Well, obviously the TS GUI would have fewer functions than YR's, considering it's older. This is just one example what benefits porting a TS mod to YR could give... If only all necessary functionality was present.
Also, in TS only factories can set a rally point (via Alt+click), but units can't. The closest you can get to RA2's rally point system for units in TS is by using waypoints, which admitably can indeed be a pain to work with. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Reenabling TS logic to the fullest extent would perhaps foster a "great migration" over to the Yuri's Revenge engine with Tiberian Sun: Rewire leading the charge. Using Rewire as a jumping off point for other mods would finally merge the community that is now divided between Tiberian Sun and Red Alert 2, thus fostering even more interest in testing features and bug testing for Ares. _________________ You come for the modding but you stay for the Crap Forum. QUICK_EDIT
Reenabling TS logic to the fullest extent would perhaps foster a "great migration" over to the Yuri's Revenge engine with Tiberian Sun: Rewire leading the charge. Using Rewire as a jumping off point for other mods would finally merge the community that is now divided between Tiberian Sun and Red Alert 2, thus fostering even more interest in testing features and bug testing for Ares.
I'm all up for YR engines anyway. TS Stuff in my opinion feels too tiny sometimes. Except Infantry... _________________ ~ Excelsior ~ QUICK_EDIT
Reenabling TS logic to the fullest extent would perhaps foster a "great migration" over to the Yuri's Revenge engine with Tiberian Sun: Rewire leading the charge. Using Rewire as a jumping off point for other mods would finally merge the community that is now divided between Tiberian Sun and Red Alert 2,
Yeah, exactly, especially because community is slowly dying, so merging would increase modding activity at least and modding members.
Regulus wrote:
thus fostering even more interest in testing features and bug testing for Ares.
That too, especially. Because TS fans should test out TS features implemented in Ares, because they know the best how features are supposed to work.
LKO would especially install (again) YR and check out features _________________ PPM Halloween Season 2021 QUICK_EDIT
Umm, MasterHaosis , just thought I'd mention that Ion storms, more campaigns, Visceroids, Drop pods, buildings with sensors are possible with Ares.
Random ion storms can be done, but the ability to turn them on and off is not possible "check out my sig, aka MLEP for details, you can also go to modding section and download a pre-beta of my mod with my ion storms in it if you want to see them."
Ares allows limitless campaigns with list feature.
Visrercoids can be done with ARES mutation logic.
Drop pods can't be done, but a very good look alike is certainly possible right now, i got one in my mod, altho i dont have graphics made for it yet.
Buildings with sensors are possible. Revealing stealth can be done via new Sonar SW repeating Sw on a building which causes them to uncloak momentarily every few seconds. "Not perfect but very close to TS."
I loved CNX, RA1, TS, ETC, but I like modding RA2, and while I'm all for TS features beginning in Ares, generally i think Ares should adopt the features the "majority" of the modding community want as a whole. I'll take Bounty, Attach animation, etc, over ore Silo's, that said I still want em. _________________ Grab my Map Logic Expansion Pack 5.2 here!
Adds random weather patterns into maps.
More disabled navalyards.
Preplaced Neutral buildings.
Additional new features.
I'm fairly certain most of the storage logic was simply overwritten or modified to bypass it. I think a majority of it is still there, knowing how lazy the WW Pacific programmers were. _________________ You come for the modding but you stay for the Crap Forum. QUICK_EDIT
I never gave a damn about TS myself, RA2 was always the superior game for me. Hence why I modified YR. I always felt like TS had many flaws that RA2 fixed. Besides, I was modding YR before I knew TS even existed.
Anyway, the way I see it, Ares should not hold back TS features just because they are TS features and the devs hate TS.
There are some easy to implement things (the Ares way) that can alter gameplay a lot, and those should go into Ares at some point (they should get any preference either just because they are "TS logics"). One example would be tiberium healing or damage. Generally, it's assigning healing or damaging properties to certain overlay types. Tiberium healing would be just one subset, special healing pads or damage areas on a map might be an entirely new use case.
However, you TS guys make the big mistake of requesting long lists of "TS logics". That always scared me off back then, because the list was long. TS features should not be implemented as TS features, but as new features that are a supeset of those "TS logics" and can be used for any application. That usually requires a lot of work per feature, so my advice is stop requesting YR to become TS. It will never become that, neither should it. QUICK_EDIT
LMAO. Merging TS with YR must be the worst idea I ever heard. TS is TS, if you like it so much, stick with it.
I also dont believe that putting TS features into Ares would merge TS and RA2 community. After a while, there would be people like "I want the TS sidebar, Ares suxxs!". QUICK_EDIT
I also dont believe that putting TS features into Ares would merge TS and RA2 community. After a while, there would be people like "I want the TS sidebar, Ares suxxs!".
I'm pretty sure RA2 modding would gain some new interest and the amount of TS-only modders would shrink. I have to admit I'd still miss some things related to TS (very fast loading times and smooth performance, the option of being stand-alone etc.), but I'd still move to RA2 (or at least stop modding only TS) if some of the current TS mods moved to using its engine or it would get some mods which would interest me.
Quote:
First off, many many popular YR mods have/had their own parts (sites) for mods, more than TS has/had. Cannis, Mooman, Mental Omega, Robot Storm, Realoaded and many others (its 3 Am here, I cant atm remember all). Look at YR argentina, and others asset sites, there are far more voxels and shps for RA2 than for TS.
I see more maps for TS here than for RA2. What about Tiberiumweb? I can mention a lot of TS mods as well, let's just throw TI, DTA (both with online activity at CnCNet as well), TS3 and SuperJoe's mod as examples. As you can see, TS is pretty popular as well.
Quote:
So, RA2 system is far more superior than TS one, and YR can be much more modded than TS.
I wouldn't say either is superior. More like the TS engine fits better for some mods and the YR engine fits better for others. And btw, a lot of the stuff you listed is doable in TS one way or another.
Quote:
So instead we all arguing here which game is better, we should try to convince Graion Dilach and AlexB to put some of features you/we want from TS into Ares, if that is possible of course.
LMAO. Merging TS with YR must be the worst idea I ever heard. TS is TS, if you like it so much, stick with it.
I also dont believe that putting TS features into Ares would merge TS and RA2 community. After a while, there would be people like "I want the TS sidebar, Ares suxxs!".
I'd move over to Ares if it had TS features, I'd abandon the TS engine completely, the only main reason people stay on TS is if they are doing a TS mod (or a very similar setting mod) as it caters to their needs more.
Quote:
"I want the TS sidebar, Ares suxxs!".
The RA2 style sidebar system is better than TS system, why would people complain? Or are you just being silly now. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
I see more maps for TS here than for RA2. What about Tiberiumweb? I can mention a lot of TS mods as well, let's just throw TI, DTA (both with online activity at CnCNet as well), TS3 and SuperJoe's mod as examples. As you can see, TS is pretty popular as well.
It is pretty popular aswell, but YR is even more popular.
^Rampastein wrote:
I wouldn't say either is superior.
Well that you wouldnot say because you are biased to it, you are not talking from neutral point. I already listed things which cannot be done in YR and at least double more of things which cannot be done in TS but can in YR. Even do not mention about Ares. And everyone who thnks they have equal moding systems or TS is better is wrong.
Talking about ,,WHAT I LIKE" is one thing. RA2 may even be 100 times better than TS, but if someone likes TS more he simply likes it, and will stick to it. But this is not case here, we are talking about facts, about which system is better and what can be done here which cannot be done there and vice versa. That means no place for biasing in this conversations because it requires different view. If we want to progress.
^Rampastein wrote:
More like the TS engine fits better for some mods and the YR engine fits better for others. And btw, a lot of the stuff you listed is doable in TS one way or another.
No, no, no, you missed point here.
Look, its not matter which engine fits for some mods, IT IS MATTER IF MODS CAN ADAPT TO GAME'S ENGINE! You cannot adapt game to your mod, but you must adapt your mod to game and its limits. But we are talking here about breaking limits, Ares which breaks limits,so via it we try to enhance it and bring to us more possibilities for modding, which we are stuck at via game engine. So, logically that if you want NOD, GDI, CABAl that you will mod TS, if you want Soviet, Allied and Yuri you will mod YR, but if you want to combine them, its not possible to do at all, or anything beyond game limits.
^Rampastein wrote:
Now that's something I can agree with.
I am glad that someone shares same opinion.
EricAnimeFreak wrote:
Umm, MasterHaosis , just thought I'd mention that Ion storms, more campaigns, Visceroids, Drop pods, buildings with sensors are possible with Ares.
Eric
Anime
Freak
Good to know, I will check it.
EricAnimeFreak wrote:
Random ion storms can be done, but the ability to turn them on and off is not possible "check out my sig, aka MLEP for details, you can also go to modding section and download a pre-beta of my mod with my ion storms in it if you want to see them."
Thats basically weather storms right?
And as I know that can be done via triggers in FA2.
But still, real ION storms not just turn off radar, but made lot of things not functioning during storm. There is one code there in TS ImmunetoIONStorm or such to prevent unit to be turned off. That cannot be done. Nah it is not matter so much anyway, its important just to appear randomly.
However, a kinda woraround can be done with EMp logic, ares armor types and such. Even attach effect can be used for such.
EricAnimeFreak wrote:
Ares allows limitless campaigns with list feature.
Ah yes, I forgot about that.
EricAnimeFreak wrote:
Visrercoids can be done with ARES mutation logic.
How exactly visceroids work in TS? I know there are small and large, and if two small visceroids hit each other, they create large one which is actually vehicle type. (I used visceroid tag on lasher tank, and it randomly was running though map, like Ares's IsCow=yes tag, but was moving more frequently).
Sure that Ares mutation logic can be used for that, killing infantry to be converted into viscroids on death. Even animation can be assigned small viseroid to convert itself into big one after some period for example. Anim to infantry whatever. So yeah, theoretically, some workaround can be done, but havent seen this yet.
EricAnimeFreak wrote:
Drop pods can't be done, but a very good look alike is certainly possible right now, i got one in my mod, altho i dont have graphics made for it yet.
Again, haven't seen this yet too, but I read somewhere here that some similiar thing is possible via crews or unit deliver superweapon.
EricAnimeFreak wrote:
Buildings with sensors are possible.
Yes, I forgot that, buildings can now have Sensors=yes like infantry and vehicles to detect stealth. So base defenses now can detect cloaked units.
EricAnimeFreak wrote:
Revealing stealth can be done via new Sonar SW repeating Sw on a building which causes them to uncloak momentarily every few seconds. "Not perfect but very close to TS."
Well, I tried once but Sonar cannot be fired at ground, even if I allow it only to fire at ground. Maybe I messed something, but yeah, I assume that works too.
EricAnimeFreak wrote:
I loved CNX, RA1, TS, ETC, but I like modding RA2, and while I'm all for TS features beginning in Ares, generally i think Ares should adopt the features the "majority" of the modding community want as a whole. I'll take Bounty, Attach animation, etc, over ore Silo's, that said I still want em.
Well yeah, but still Bounty and Attach efect is priority aswell Tiberium Damage/Heal, and silos, majority of TS fans wants.
pd wrote:
I never gave a damn about TS myself, RA2 was always the superior game for me. Hence why I modified YR. I always felt like TS had many flaws that RA2 fixed.
Well that is what I was trying to explain.
pd wrote:
Anyway, the way I see it, Ares should not hold back TS features just because they are TS features and the devs hate TS.
Exactly, but this is going to happen anyway, cause they hate TS features, and plus they lack at coding team.
pd wrote:
One example would be tiberium healing or damage. Generally, it's assigning healing or damaging properties to certain overlay types. Tiberium healing would be just one subset, special healing pads or damage areas on a map might be an entirely new use case.
You see, I share that opinion. Basically anyone who commented here share opinion that Tiberium healing/damage should be implement into Ares, both of TS and RA2 fans.
Wait a second. Why do not you re-enable this if that is easy to do? I am sure some time of your life sparing on this feature wont kill you or do any damage to your life. As it is easy to you, but will benefit us lot. I am sure it is better if you take look at this rather than forcing Graion Dilach or AlexB to something what they do not want to do or do not have time even if they want to do. But cause we all are ,,crying" for that feature, its more likely that we all will test it out how it works. I am sure that feature wont left without testers.
pd wrote:
However, you TS guys make the big mistake of requesting long lists of "TS logics". That always scared me off back then, because the list was long.
Which long features did they requested? I think only what I listed there is what current YR and Ares can't do.
pd wrote:
That usually requires a lot of work per feature, so my advice is stop requesting YR to become TS. It will never become that, neither should it.
Of course it should not. You cant convert whole YR into TS, its pointless. You would rather play TS then. But still, TS has alot of awesome features which even RA2 fans would use, but nobody wanted to check some of them. _________________ PPM Halloween Season 2021 QUICK_EDIT
The only thing that I have gathered is that fixing storage logic and making overlays do damage is WAY harder than coding brand new never included trench logic from the ground up, which was my ztyping point from the beginning. _________________ You come for the modding but you stay for the Crap Forum. QUICK_EDIT
Uh... a lot of this stuff is either actually possible in TS or is just you repeating yourself to make the list look bigger.
Unless I missed something, aren't these features the WHOLE DAMN REASON why people want to be able to emulate TS-specific stuff in RA2? RA2 may be more advanced, but it still misses stuff from TS which mean that people prefer to use TS as a base for their mods.
Personally I don't care if Ares implements TS features (since I'm not much of a modder), but wouldn't it be a major boon to the project if more people wanted to use it? Haven't the Ares team been complaining about not having a large enough user base? Beside that, nobody ever said that it has to happen NOW, just that it would be nice to EVENTUALLY have these features!
This is such a trivial thing to be yelling at each other about. _________________ Dawn of the Tiberium Age staff member QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 18 Jun 2005 Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands
Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:21 pm Post subject:
Graion Dilach wrote:
I seen that behaviour, Regulus. And I think that kills a community. But teaching Ares coding requires tutoring and it's not something you can learn from tutorials.
I am willing to tutor anybody. I have offered it already to many people and there are no exceptions to this statement (except if I don't have time). In my realms, knowledge defines the community and the community benefits if the knowledge is shared.
Besides, I started Ares with only pure C knowledge, I learnt thinking in OOP within it.
What kind of level of C++ knowledge is required to be able to contribute to Ares? I've been thinking a lot about perhaps helping with Ares, but I keep having second thoughts whether I know enough of C++. Or am I asking this to the wrong person? QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:46 pm Post subject:
Regulus wrote:
The only thing that I have gathered is that fixing storage logic and making overlays do damage is WAY harder than coding brand new never included trench logic from the ground up, which was my ztyping point from the beginning.
Can't be sure about that. Maybe to reenable a TS feature, you need one hook or more and maybe on the other one you don't need one at all.
AttachEffect for example uses no hooks on it's own (yet), it ATM uses a TechnoClass::Update hook (written for RadarJammer and many other things) and the IvanBomb hooks.
Dutchy, well, if you download the code, set up a VS2010 project to get the hang of it and IntelliSense works in it... and you even understand some titbits ion Bugfixes.cpp, for example... then you're on the right track. ModEnc has some pages regarding that. All the rest needs specific questions, because in my case, it was IntelliSense which pointed out how stuffs works to me mostly... and once I woke up and I was like, "hey, I got it". QUICK_EDIT
Haven't the Ares team been complaining about not having a large enough user base?
What I have to do with that?
They complain, not me, also that did not happen recently, they seems now kinda satisfied with us.
ChronoSeth wrote:
Beside that, nobody ever said that it has to happen NOW, just that it would be nice to EVENTUALLY have these features!
And? What is point of that?
Nobody ever said that ANY feature must be in Ares. its just good will of developers to put features, even to start Ares project at first place.
You are basically saying that nobody said that it must be done now, but if would be nice to have it eventually. Well thats nothing new to me, I suppose to everybody. Thats how things work for years. We can want some stuff immediately, but its up for them to set priority and decide when something will be done. Considering that only two of them left in coding staff, then I do not expect top speed progress.
ChronoSeth wrote:
This is such a trivial thing to be yelling at each other about.
I havent seen nobody yelling, I have seen conversations, and yes, one important thing
,,Personally I don't care if Ares implements TS features (since I'm not much of a modder)"
I never could understand when someone starts point in post with ,,I do not care" and keep talking. Its basically like this ,,Personally I do not care............... but I will say it anyway"
Do not get me wrong, but guy who started thread cares, and people who contributed and discussed in this thread care (not in all points and features, but in most), so I cant understand why some people who do not care comment in threads that they do not care. We are discussing here about TS features if they will be implemented, how can be implemented in Ares, how will they work, and why they should (or counter arguments)should not be implemented, if they are worth of time or if they are not, how many people would use it, what for and such. Developers (now AlexB and Graion Dilach) see from certain threads (here in PPM) if people care or not. Here for example, guy could create this thread, and nobody reply, this means that people do not care, and if people do not care, them they should not waste time on those features. But in this case, guy created thread, and we have lot of discussion and conversations and they will see that we actually care for this, so chances that we will get some of those features are bigger. So here is point about people who cares, as always they need some amount of people who are interested in using features (why would they implement feature which nobody wants to use?). _________________ PPM Halloween Season 2021 QUICK_EDIT
Haven't the Ares team been complaining about not having a large enough user base?
What I have to do with that?
Nothing. That part of my post was not directed at you. Oh, and by the way, you're using a rather irritated tone with me, which is the closest thing you can get to yelling on the internet before capslock.
Regarding the rest of your post, I think you misunderstood me.
Whatever happens here, it won't affect me personally. But I don't like the idea of a developer for a project such as this saying that a certain feature will never be added. In a community for an old game's source port which I frequent, the developers used to have a tendency to outright reject a feature request with no reasoning other than "I don't want to do it". That's fine, but the stuff was eventually added anyway (by the same developers, not others in the community), which generally annoyed rather a lot of people.
MasterHaosis wrote:
I never could understand when someone starts point in post with ,,I do not care" and keep talking.
This is a forum. By definition, the whole idea is that people voice their opinions, sometimes even if the subject does not directly concern them.
If I'm wrong about any of this, please correct me. I'm honestly having some trouble following the discussion. _________________ Dawn of the Tiberium Age staff member QUICK_EDIT
I'm 1000% serious when I say that I would move over to Ares and begin working on Tiberian Dawn: Renegade immediately if Tiberium damage logic and storage logic was reimplemented.
The only thing I don't really understand about programming new features is linking in draw() commands like drawing the storage pips and stuff like that over the silos. Other than that I am fairly certain I have a working psuedocode ready.
As for tiberium damage hook, couldn't you use the Draw() pass to hook into it? I don't really know what function names are for Ares, but I am sure there has to be a draw function somewhere. _________________ You come for the modding but you stay for the Crap Forum. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:00 pm Post subject:
Uhm, drawing is seriously not the place these should be hooked into. I'm more thinking on BuildingClass_Init and rechecking HouseClass to see what have remained.
And besides... I'd be more interested if you would throw up an idea how to get storage compatible with stealing SpyEffects (both old percentage and Ares's amount).
EDIT: A quick look in the classes would suggest me that the ones saying logic is in as disabled form in a way seems legit. I did not check what's the disable and where it got hidden.
Have to say... if I'd have someone who can tell me how some TSonly logics work internally, that'd be a good help. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 18 Jun 2005 Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands
Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:47 pm Post subject:
Graion Dilach wrote:
Uhm, drawing is seriously not the place these should be hooked into. I'm more thinking on BuildingClass_Init and rechecking HouseClass to see what have remained.
And besides... I'd be more interested if you would throw up an idea how to get storage compatible with stealing SpyEffects (both old percentage and Ares's amount).
EDIT: A quick look in the classes would suggest me that the ones saying logic is in as disabled form in a way seems legit. I did not check what's the disable and where it got hidden.
Have to say... if I'd have someone who can tell me how some TSonly logics work internally, that'd be a good help.
Best bet is asking Hyper, as he seems to be one of the few who knows how TS works internally. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:52 pm Post subject:
I agree, but I'll wait with it until I am surely have time to actually trigger the thing into working stage. _________________ "If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
=======================
Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more... QUICK_EDIT
I was thinking about the Tiberium overlay damage doing damage on the draw pass, that way its frame based and what not, and it did damage per frame. That way it is guaranteed to do damage regardless of the character standing on the overlay or moving through it and the modder would be able to modify how many frames pass before it does its damage by controlling for every (N)th frame.
The original way Tiberium worked is that it only did damage when a unit moved over it, IE changed cells from one to the other with Tiberium in it. I feel that a frame based damage would be more sufficient with the ability to change the damage per fame and on what frame it did damage on, IE damage after 30 frames which would be a simple for() loop.
Indeed, initializing storage on the draw frame would be a bad idea.
The spy could take a percentage based on the total value of the amount of credits owned by the player, but that could get out of hand quickly. It may be a percentage based governed by a maximum amount that would only give the maximum amount once that threshold is met.
I think in Red Alert 1, the spy could only steal credits from the refinery, which means that it could steal only the amount available in the refinery itself, which would be a maximum of 2000 if we are using base RA/TS values. Again, it would be simple to govern this with a few math algorithms.
An expansion of this logic could be the spyeffect logic takes the storage=int tag and uses it as a base number for the maximum amount of money possible to steal, so that if you steal from a silo, you only get so much, or a percentage their of. The risk/reward is lower for a silo, but you won't get a lot of money back. _________________ You come for the modding but you stay for the Crap Forum. QUICK_EDIT
RA1 Thief was able to steal from both, refinery and silo (basically everything with Storage). Spy wasn't able to steal, but made the pips visible on the refinery and silo, so you could see the storage level.
IIRC the money you stole in RA1 was the half of the global amount of money and not only half of the infiltrated building storage.
Another thing to think about, how is the storage distributed?
-like in TS, first build building with storage is filled first
-all storage buildings equally (would be necessary if future expansion of this logic is considered, like helipad storage used for unit reload; or a special deploy command is allowed to deliberately transfer storage to this building)
Another thing is the separation between global account and storage account.
-in TS, credits are first taken from the global account. If global is 0, then the storage account is used.
-in TD, credits are first taken from the storage, then from the global account. (This allowed the player to transfer storage money to global by building something and then canceling the construction to get the money back)
RA2 surely messed up a lot on this part, as storage is directly transfered to global account. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
I think in Red Alert 1, the spy could only steal credits from the refinery, which means that it could steal only the amount available in the refinery itself, which would be a maximum of 2000 if we are using base RA/TS values. Again, it would be simple to govern this with a few algorithms
Firstly the spies in RA1 couldn't steal credits.. The thief could. If the spy entered a silo/refinery it would simply allow that player to see the storage in that building
Secondly the thief could steal from both refinery and silos
Thirdly it stole half the credits stored in the respective building afaik
Anyway, back to thread topic---- _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Sorry for not remembering every little god damn detail.
@LKO
Another thing to mention is that selling buildings transferred their sell value to the global account and not the storage. _________________ You come for the modding but you stay for the Crap Forum. Last edited by Regulus on Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:34 pm; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
Regulus, nah, you are not alone, I forgot that too.
SMIFFGIG wrote:
Firstly the spies in RA1 couldn't steal credits.. The thief could. If the spy entered a silo/refinery it would simply allow that player to see the storage in that building
Secondly the thief could steal from both refinery and silos
Thirdly it stole half the credits stored in the respective building afaik
Anyway, back to thread topic----
Ah yes, thank you for reminding us. I totally forgot about thief.
ChronoSeth wrote:
Oh, and by the way, you're using a rather irritated tone with me, which is the closest thing you can get to yelling on the internet before capslock.
Do not worry man, do not be afraid. That what you heard is not voice of irritation, it is voice of reason! Just embrace it, do not fight it!
ChronoSeth wrote:
If I'm wrong about any of this, please correct me. I'm honestly having some trouble following the discussion.
I would gladly chat with you man, but if we are in some other less important thread I would even exchange with you email/msn/facebook and some of tickets, so we can really be happy friends, we will only need one more person to be happy three friends!
But now, call of duty. I have more important things to discuss, like this:
Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
"look-into" is already a 1000 times better than "i hate TS, so i don't care"
You see! I told you if you have me on your side that we might have some chance
I annoyed Graion Dilach as I could whenever I find place (msn, PMs) to get only this ,,look into" promise!
Small step for me, but big for community.
This was going to happen. Even if he hates TS, he doesnot hate us, therefore he will most likely see what he can do about it.
But guys, if we push little more, maybe we will get silos and Tierium Damage/Heal in 3.0 not in 4.0 Maybe even in next branch hahaha!
Ok ok, I will be serious now.
Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
RA1 Thief was able to steal from both, refinery and silo. Spy wasn't able to steal, but made the pips visible on the refinery and silo, so you could see the storage level.
LIN KUEI! That is awesome idea! I always forget to request that.
Spy logic can also get new tag, so when spy infiltrate refinery for example, each time we click on it, it would show us ammo pips, or number of money enemy has! When he infiltrates certian power plant, each time we click on it, it will show us his power in ammo!
Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
IIRC the money you stole in RA1 was the half of the global amount of money and not only half of the infiltrated building storage.
But money you steal (at least in RA2), enemy do not lose, like when Floating Disc is draining refinery! It would be better if you get money when infiltrate refinery, and enemy lose it in his account. Basically ,,forced transfer"
Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
Another thing to think about, how is the storage distributed?
-like in TS, first build building with storage is filled first
-all storage buildings equally (would be necessary if future expansion of this logic is considered, like helipad storage used for unit reload; or a special deploy command is allowed to deliberately transfer storage to this building)
Well, I do not know exactly how storage works, thats why you TS fans are here to suggest and give detailed explanation about this, but yes I agree whatever you say regarding this.
I will use Silo system too. But we do not have shps for silos, we will have to make our own.
Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
Another thing is the separation between global account and storage account.
-in TS, credits are first taken from the global account. If global is 0, then the storage account is used.
-in TD, credits are first taken from the storage, then from the global account. (This allowed the player to transfer storage money to global by building something and then canceling the construction to get the money back)
RA2 surely messed up a lot on this part, as storage is directly transfered to global account.
Yeah, that could work in Ares too.
Lin Kuei Ominae, let me as you question.
How AI behaves in TS with silos? Does he build lot of them, is there any tag to AI consider silos as power plants or such? _________________ PPM Halloween Season 2021 QUICK_EDIT
I don't think that the AI was required to use silos like the player as it had a much larger global cash at the start and some other stuff controlled by some of the difficulty tags. Sorry if I don't get this information to the exact letter, but I cannot be bothered at looking at the .ini tags. THANKS!! _________________ You come for the modding but you stay for the Crap Forum. QUICK_EDIT
Regulus, what speed man! It took you only 4 minutes to read my small post
Well, yeah, thats why I am asking about this, I am not much familiar with it, only from good old RA1 and C&C3. Silos are not present in RA2/YR and Generals/ZH.
But funny thing in C&C3 is that both NOD and GDi needs silos, but Scrin doesnot need them, money is automatically transfered into account.
Thats why I asked LKO about this, if he doesnot know, then nobody knows.
Guys, but in rulesmd.ini there are tags for this in animations
182=GASILO_A
183=GASILO_AD
184=GASILO_B
185=GASILO_BD
And there is civilian structures [CAFARM02] called Farm Silo, and [CATS01] called Farm Twin Silo. They perhaps represent scrapped silos for RA2 or whatever. I heard that once somewhere. _________________ PPM Halloween Season 2021 QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:00 pm Post subject:
It wasn't MasterHaosis who annoyed me. Regarding that, Haosis, get out of this topic, please, your informative posts just clutters up the thread.
It was that this topic started to spread false information. I still hate TS and I still see no gain in Storage. But this topic went into nonsense overexaggerating that such stupidity is needed.
The only proper way to end the mess in this topic from the POV of the User Support Agent is to take a look in that thing.
I'm not interested in it still, but to hell with you if you say Ares is "alienating userbase if it doesn't go Storage".
Maybe Ares already has around the same time put in as TI. Maybe. It's not about alienating, it's just being more complex to satisfy everyone, and then it should invent useful stuff not TS retard things.
But ah well, I usually keep my promises. I'll try to set up Storage as it was in TS in 0.4 development time (after I'm done with what I want to code, not feel forced to code). Nothing more. I am clearly sure it won't even worth half of the time I'll invest into it.
So yea. I respect your opinion and all... they why you can't respect mine? Don't say you do after I told you I am not interested and you started to bash the engines in a flamewar. And personally I hate the ones "I support Ares if it has feature A, B and C"... since they only want their stuff, and not suppoting the project at all, IMO. QUICK_EDIT
Sorry for not remembering every little god damn detail.
Well the fact is you didn't remember any detail correctly about the spy/thief.
I corrected you incase someone like Graion Dilach or alexB read your post and assumed it was correct... Not to rustle your jimmies, so calm yourself, I was only trying to help _________________ QUICK_EDIT
It wasn't MasterHaosis who annoyed me. Regarding that, Haosis, get out of this topic, please, your informative posts just clutters up the thread.
Dont say that you did not notice that I was joking.
Of course that I did not annoy you, I did not ask you a thing regarding this.
I was joking until I said ,,Ok ok, I will be serious now.". Then I was damn serious regarding replying in LKO and Regulus. _________________ PPM Halloween Season 2021 QUICK_EDIT
The post came off as assey. I apologize. It was the use of "firstly" that set me off. IDK why.
Anyway, the attack wasn't at Graion Dilach specifically, but the whole experience with the Ares team in general. I find it mind blowing that they choose only to implement things and features based on what appears to be personal taste, which I suppose is their right, and I am fine with that.
The fact that they then they turn around and claim that the project is "dying" because people aren't beta testing the project and claim that no one is interested blows my mind. There are plenty of people who mod Tiberian Sun that are interested in Ares, but when key features of your mod aren't even being considered for implementation why support it without gain? I LITERALLY put Tiberian Dawn: Renegade on hold because I thought that Ares would eventually implement TS features. Silly me.
And an even bigger shame is that Tiberian Sun: Rewire is stalled without any hope of seeing a release as well, and if anything deserves to be released, it's Gangster and company's work. Seriously, REWIRE would be a complete game changer in the modding community and it really, REALLY needs to happen. But it won't with this kind of mentality.
Again, I am not specifically attacking you, Graion Dilach, but it just seems to me that this is the general opinion of the entire Ares staff as of late, and I and others feel that it is somewhat of a bullshit excuse because an individual cannot see the "usefulness" of a feature despite it being clearly laid out.
I would be more than willing to help code and reimplemented these features, however, I need a solid foundation from which to jump from. I would gleefully contribute to see it make an .03 release. I have read the tutorial on ModENC but I still am clueless as to how to make any meaningful contribution to Ares. _________________ You come for the modding but you stay for the Crap Forum. QUICK_EDIT
I have to agree with Regulus, there would be so much potential for great things with Ares having key TS features and with the completion of Rewire. Not only would it pretty much make TS obsolete for any new modders who wish to make a TS or Tiberian series mods, it would likely make at least a few TS mods swap over to Ares. It might even bring back old TS modders who haven't been modding for years. Suddenly air transports are doable in TS? Garrisoning? Oil derricks? Rotors? Naval units? A crapload of new things just from RA2/YR, not to mention from Ares itself? That would breathe completely new life to TS modding, and thus to Ares.
Since the time I joined PPM, I've seen many people join the TS modding scene, and some of them move on to start public TS mod projects. With Ares / Rewire all of these would have become Ares users (with proper information available). Maybe even some of the bigger TS projects might see a move to Ares, or the people involved in them would start new mods based on Ares. Personally for me it's too late, my mod is way too far to make the transition and I don't have the time or passion to start over. But for alot of people this would be a huge thing. Actually kind of funny thing, I recall joining the Ares IRC channel 2 years ago or so and asking if this thing is available for TS. Nope. Okay. So yeah you can write me down as another TS modder who had interest in Ares.
I don't even see THAT many key features you'd need from TS. The main ones I can think of (some of these might already be doable):
1. Tiberium based logics (damaging, healing, explosive power)
2. Stealth logics (stealthed units, stealth generator, stealth detection by sensor arrays and jumpjets)
3. EMP logics (I recall this is already doable in Ares)
4. Tiberium lifeforms (Visceroids, Floaters, Fiends, Veins)
EDIT: 5. Subterranean units
And no all of this wouldn't need to be done right now. Just some sort of promise or commitment that they will eventually happen so TS modders could move to Ares with easy minds. Some of those TS modders might even have the skills to help make these happen. I'm a programmer myself so had I made the move to Ares, I could have definitely helped you out with it. Pretty sure all the time I've wasted on hacky workarounds in TS could have been used to create something working for Ares _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Some things to clarify I guess... once Tiberium Damage can be restored...
4. Lifeforms could be done with Aggressive Neutral Units though. With Tiberium Damage also being implemented it could use custom warheads that use AnimToInfantry Stuff like the Brute. Which is already doable in Ares.
Veins... not so sure.
2. Stealth Generators - Using AttachEffect you can create ones which selectively cloak using Verses or something... ask Graion as this is how Epsilon does it with their Stealth Generators. _________________ ~ Excelsior ~ QUICK_EDIT
1. Tiberium based logics (damaging, healing, explosive power)
2. Stealth logics (stealthed units, stealth generator, stealth detection by sensor arrays and jumpjets)
3. EMP logics (I recall this is already doable in Ares)
4. Tiberium lifeforms (Visceroids, Floaters, Fiends, Veins)
5. Subterranean units
These are all possible in RA2/YR to a degree. Only things that don't work at all are sensor arrays (YR only), jumpjet sensors & tiberium-related things & lifeform special logic. Stealth Generators work just like in TS, as does cloaking in general. Ares also makes it possible for Aircraft & Buildings to use Cloakable=yes, and in there's gonna be the aforementioned AttachEffect. EMP does require Ares just as you said, and unlike TS it works separately from weapon damage. Subterranean units have always been possible in RA2/YR, only issue has been that the DigSound= SFX is used for both nuke warning siren and burrowing, so unless you're using Ares where this can be fixed very easily, you probably need to put either dig or nuke siren SFX somewhere else like an animation. _________________ Last edited by Starkku on Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:13 am; edited 2 times in total QUICK_EDIT
Btw, is the invincible sensor-that-remains-after-death fixed anyway?
Did it affect SensorArrays or just usual Sensors? I do remember SensorArray behaving like this in NPExt, where it was sort of enabled having been disabled in YR. Sensors, which does not work on BuildingTypes or flying stuff has never had this issue in RA2/YR. Sensors will be gone when the unit or infantry is dead. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Overlay damage as PD suggest is a feature I would support, because it has general uses for all modding parties. I'm not an Ares developer by the way. I like to think though that asking anything to be added to 0.3 will just bloat development time for the whole community like 0.2's bloated issues of constant additions. I think Graion will agree with me that adding anything to 0.3 will put more pressure on Ares team and also increase the wait time for future patches like 0.4.
If you wanted to I'd say, see if its possible to adapt attach animations to overlay, though that is probably not possible. But this would just be an addition to a logic already in development.
But why would it be great for TS modder:
If overlay was able to be assigned an "attached animation" or something similar, many things could become possible, not just for TS modders.
The attached animation on overlay could damage infantry and heal cyborgs. If the infantry died on the ore field the warhead from animation could spawn a neutral aggressive viceroid.
However below can already be done with ares "attached animation test builds" excluding the overlay attached animation.
The viceroid could kill infantry and create other viceroid. The viceroid could then also have a special armor type. This armor type would be susceptible to an attached animation on the viceroid itself* which would kill any other viceroid nearby. The warhead would have another animation to infantry which would spawn Viceroid2, this "spawn animation" would kill all other viceroid1's in the area, so what you would get is limitless viceroid chain, with the ability for 2 of the same kind to seemingly merge and become a stronger form.
Of course if overlay "attached animation" were also possible, you could replace an existing 3rd or 4th overlay of ore and turn them into veins, they would deal damage as an aura "warhead spread" with attached animation, destroying buildings nearby as it grows and even spreading more veins via the attached animation. The veins would be harvestable, and need to be harvested in order to keep it from spreading in to your base or battlefield, "this would not be for a chemical missile".
Also I'm pretty sure Subterranean units already work in Ares just no way to detect them etc.
MasterHaosis wrote:
Thats basically weather storms right?
And as I know that can be done via triggers in FA2.
But still, real ION storms not just turn off radar, but made lot of things not functioning during storm. There is one code there in TS ImmunetoIONStorm or such to prevent unit to be turned off. That cannot be done. Nah it is not matter so much anyway, its important just to appear randomly.
However, a kinda woraround can be done with EMp logic, ares armor types and such. Even attach effect can be used for such.
Yes it basically is, but then again ion storms became weather storms, so in a ways it's like going back.
In MLEP radar outages were removed, but if you wish I could make a version of MLEP with radar outages if you asked. As for EMP etc, it is done on users side for customized storms, so you could add emp to storms effect, you can even have the storms spawn ore, or create rain etc whatever you really want. Bolts ad storms are also randomized, too bad there is no way to tick off the storms though, you can play games though with mlep were you go 40 minutes without any storms, and other where you get storms every few mins, it's varied.
Anyways I'd thought I'd share my thoughts again, mostly I'm just following this discussion. _________________ Grab my Map Logic Expansion Pack 5.2 here!
Adds random weather patterns into maps.
More disabled navalyards.
Preplaced Neutral buildings.
Additional new features.
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:48 am Post subject:
OK, now I have another question.
Why all of you mentions Rewire as the gate between TS and YR? There's also Reloaded. And it's definitely older than Rewire.
And the IRC was open. All time along. I was there all the time and I learnt OOP there just by D's and Alex's tech talk along with the questions I specifically asked regarding titbits of the code. And if you say, that you're willing to help reimplementing TS logics to unite the two modding communities by documenting how the TS logics worked or with actual code.... now, that's something I have to consider and it sounds like having potential, unlike the usual "I support Ares when A B and C gets done" or the whole debate in this topic.
Tho this doesn't change the fact that regarding Storage, I'll only aim to restore TS's variant. As much as I seen (tho it was really a first glance only on the class variables), there's no way to expand it further without a complete recoding. _________________ "If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
=======================
Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more... QUICK_EDIT
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum You cannot attach files in this forum You can download files in this forum
