I love that Warehouse, is that a CnP or a render, I really can't tell either way.
And these bunkers. Such an improvement to the stock ones, someone's gonna have to start putting a pack together of redone WW stuff _________________ "Don't beg for things; Do it yourself or you'll never get anything." QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:20 am Post subject:
Wow, nice stuff I'm seeing here. Erastus, is that Humvee a glorious edit of Mig's? _________________ "If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
=======================
Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more... QUICK_EDIT
Erastus' voxels are all from scratch. It's why he's the best voxel artist here IMO. he's got quite alot of skill and originality under his belt, much more than I've seen from the majority of the community. QUICK_EDIT
I love that Warehouse, is that a CnP or a render, I really can't tell either way.
Thanks for the complement, it is infact a CnP that I've been working on amongst a few other things.
Graion Dilach wrote:
Wow, nice stuff I'm seeing here. Erastus, is that Humvee a glorious edit of Mig's?
Nope but I know the voxel that you're talking about. After doing a ton of really tiny Hummers for Twisted Insurrection/Dawn, I really wanted to do a more detailed ra2 scale one.
If anyone is interested here are some 360s of the vehicles that featured in that Tech Factory screenshot.
I almost entered the Lasher in Voxelgeddon but decided otherwise.
_________________
"And Cain went out from the presence of The Lord, and dwelt in the Land of Nod, east of Eden."
the voxel and the factory look really good on their own, but together, the voxel look very washed out and lack good contrast. Hopefully something that a better VPL can fix. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
That's all well and good, but most of the time it seems you post for the sake of complaining. For example, this is about a feature that isn't fixable on any of these older CNC platforms. Voxels will NEVER match up to the quality of SHP's.
Another example is how Erastus' work on TI completely outshines the work done by everyone on your team. But for some reason I never see that people are actually in the know that Erastus is the one behind that work. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:57 am Post subject:
Mhm, I see it now, ingame they looked quite similar but on the 360 I can see the differences clearly, sorry.
LKo, the voxel doesn't look washed out, infact, it would've been ways worse if that wouldn't been a custom VPL already. _________________ "If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
=======================
Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more... QUICK_EDIT
@Sane: look at TI's voxel how crisp, sharp and well lighted they are. The contrast is much higher there.
I'm not posting for the sake of complaining. I post when i have something constructive to say. All these "nice, i like it", "can i have it" and "wow" comments are nice to see, but don't help you any further improving your work. And as I said, I like them, but there is room for improvement which I'm not afraid of to mention too.
@GD: it is already a custom vpl ? o.O
Isn't there any way to make the lighting more prominent without making the false light direction that visible?
Right now i think the sides and the top of the voxel have a too similar shading, thus the washed out look.
Since Banshee already made auto-normals, maybe there is a way to create an auto-ambient occlusion. A way to shade/lighten the texture of voxel concerning a lightsource from directly above and this way compensate a bit the false light of the engine.
e.g.
voxel with normals facing up become brighter
voxel with normals facing to the side aren't changed
voxel with normals facing down become darker
In addition, the more a voxel is surrounded by other voxel the darker it gets. This way parts under barrels/turrets would become darker/shaded too.
^^basically how ambient occlusion works in theory, by looking from each vertex into all directions and checking how much "sky" is visible. Then using this value for the additional shading. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
I hope I don't need to remind you that you're telling me, an accomplished voxel artist, that the modification you're referencing me to is on TS, while the ones here are on RA2. The rendering engine for the Voxels on RA2 is much more sophisticated in the fact that it can render more facings of lighting for the normals, while in TS it's limited to 32 facings, which means that Voxels will always look worse in RA2 than TS because the contrast between the way they are rendered in engine, and within a 3D package is extremely drastic. There's no way to fully control all 256 normal facings within the RA2 engine by hand, thus needing to refer to the auto-normalizer done by banshee, which unfortunately further washes out the shapes and contrasts of voxels for the RA2 engine. QUICK_EDIT
Sane trying to cause drama. 6 years later, nothing changes. Grow up, Mason, seriously, all this anti-TI bullshit is wearing thin. The fact that people are ignorant as to who makes what is not something we can be held responsible for, especially when each person is credited for ever single asset they make in their respective threads, a specific page on the website, a ModDB group and of course the actual in-game credits.
Now that I've commented, it's three brummies, one thread. Nice work anyhow, as you are both already aware of my opinion. QUICK_EDIT
Aro, I can't begin to understand why you bothered to post a reply to my complaint with LKO. I was having a non flamatory discussion with him with which I was not grasping why he was complaining about a "feature" in these engines that are incapable of being handled by any one person in this community due to a severe lack of the knowledge necessary to change the way the game renders voxels.
I stated nothing negative about TI, so I don't understand why you're even bringing up me being negative about it.
You sitting there and flaming me for trying to better understand his reasoning for his so called "constructive criticism" is, I find, completely invalid and unnecessary. LKO wasn't even giving Erastus any constructive criticism what so ever, because he never offered a fix for the issue, and wasn't aware of the facts with his posts.
So, Aro, I say to you that you need to grow up, and move on. You seem to be the only person here to be bringing up anything negative about TI. I was praising Erastus for his work.
Because you know as well as I do that the only reason you even responded to LKO's feedback is because of comments passed back and forth from what is said inside the staff forum to you in some way or form, so your opinions are always biased, if you didn't have a biased opinion towards TI or LKO, you never would have mentioned the "Another example is how Erastus' work on TI completely outshines the work done by everyone on your team...." comment in the first place, since it wasn't even a necessary addition to your response to LKO's "Constructive criticism" comment.
This thread has nothing to do with TI, but you just happened to bring up some kind of problem with it because LKO gave feedback, and I'M the one bringing up negatives for no reason?
Yes, LKO can be much pickier than other members of the community, but you will never be able to please everybody. Just because you don't see a problem with anything (personally, neither do I) it doesn't mean that nobody else can see room for improvement. QUICK_EDIT
Sorry Andrew, but that logic is unfounded. It's a shame that you turned !DR's and Erastus' work thread into your "it's time to bash sane to everyone for the millionth time" thread.
if you had this big of an issue with my post in regards to what offends me about LKO and his attitude to anyone that helps him in his largest endeavours, then you could have saved yourself the embarrassment and told me you had an issue in a more private manner.
Again, there was nothing Negative said, by me, to LKO's project, I simply stated that it's a damn shame Erastus doesn't get more credit than he deserves. and you should feel the same way.
I find your lack of support for Erastus in that department quite disturbing and horribly offensive. I suggest we leave this at that, and you can continue this with me in private. Last edited by SaneDisruption on Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:13 am; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
If you don't want arguments to break out, stop sparking them. End of story. We'll continue the discussion on Skype then.
In any case, I apologize to you and the guys for jumping, but there is always more to it than that. Last edited by Aro on Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:29 am; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
In a matter of speaking, yes. The normal values in RA2 are far too complex for the caliber of game RA2 is. there just isn't enough values of color for the palette available for voxels in RA2 to make the more complex normals engine really shine "no pun intended". which is what makes voxels look extremely crisp in TS QUICK_EDIT
SaneDisruption, ah yes. I noticed that TS voxels had stronger colors than Ra2/YR ones, even if they are much more ugly,smaller and have less normals.
But why Westwood put that if RA2 engine cannot handle it properly? _________________ PPM Halloween Season 2021 QUICK_EDIT
Because in their minds it was a simple enough change to make a slight improvement on the conversion of 3D models to voxels to properly portray the lighting the engines are supposed to be emulating.
Unfortunately it had terrible results :/. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:32 am Post subject:
Aro, you've stated stupid there. It's the fact that LKO can never be pleased with voxels. That's a fact and Sane posted interesting thoughts there. You started the argument with Sane.
LKO, as a FYI, the standard vpl has a lot of color bleeding on brick and Yuri. Either this, either a complete (both unittem and VPL) reorganization ultimately ending up with less useful shades (and many shades only used just for the VPL to increase contrast) either smoothness. But stop with that stupid nonconsistent lighting thingie and talking about using wrong normals intenionally and such nonsense. There is no false light, and stop jumping into your 'VOXELS ARE ALWAYS INFERIOR AND WRONG, NO, WROOOOONG" bandwagon.
Honestly, I really consider the voxels shown here ace work. Keep up this. _________________ "If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
=======================
Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more... QUICK_EDIT
Graion Dilach, according to posts, I think they are arguing because of something which happened in their staff forums. _________________ PPM Halloween Season 2021 QUICK_EDIT
Aro, you've stated stupid there. It's the fact that LKO can never be pleased with voxels. That's a fact and Sane posted interesting thoughts there. You started the argument with Sane.
LKO, as a FYI, the standard vpl has a lot of color bleeding on brick and Yuri. Either this, either a complete (both unittem and VPL) reorganization ultimately ending up with less useful shades (and many shades only used just for the VPL to increase contrast) either smoothness. But stop with that stupid nonconsistent lighting thingie and talking about using wrong normals intenionally and such nonsense. There is no false light, and stop jumping into your 'VOXELS ARE ALWAYS INFERIOR AND WRONG, NO, WROOOOONG" bandwagon.
Honestly, I really consider the voxels shown here ace work. Keep up this.
The discussion is over, Graion, and I've already apologized. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:56 am Post subject:
I've messed a lot with VPLs for my own mod, and most who've seen my VPL knows that overall I ended up with a smooth VPL but a less smooth unittem and custompaletting everything possible. And I'm really sorry about that Humvee mistake... really looked similar in shape ingame. -_-
On the other hand, glad you didn't entered into the voxcomp with that Lasher. More chance for my entry to not look a complete bloatware compared to the other competents. _________________ "If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
=======================
Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more... QUICK_EDIT
Graion Dilach, yes, I remmeber you experimenting with custom vpl... And custom unittem pallete, so all of Yuri's voxels got purple.
haha did you made voxel for competition? _________________ PPM Halloween Season 2021 QUICK_EDIT
On the other hand, glad you didn't entered into the voxcomp with that Lasher. More chance for my entry to not look a complete bloatware compared to the other competents. #Tongue
Real nice work there with the voxels, Erastus, really nice. Don't have much to complain, maybe just that you shouldn't bother that much with the tracks, it just isn't necessary, you know
With regards to the whole Sane vs. LKO discussion: Guys, whilst Sane has bashed me a couple years ago for being a n00b, I believe he helped me become a better modder, and a better person, overall. I am glad that a veteran is back between us, even for a little while (tho hopefully more). As for the little heated discussion, I suppose we all should take it lightly. QUICK_EDIT
@GD
1. stop becoming personal. I nowhere wrote that the voxel are bad.
2. if posting improvement suggestions and criticism isn't allowed anymore, then why having this forum? And I posted some useful suggestions and not some crap like "make a new render engine". I posted something that is possible and can even be done by manual voxel editing.
3. This was nothing about "voxel are always bad". I was just pointing out that these voxel look ingame less contrasty (even compared to vanilla RA2 vpl).
4. concerning false light: obviously the voxel in the last screenshot have the sides almost with the same brightness as the top. In RA2 though, the sides are much brighter than the top giving the "false light" effect, false lighht because actually the top needs to be brighter than the sides.
And with my "washed out" comment i only wanted to point out, that it would be nice to give the upward facing voxel a bit more brightness. (either by vpl or by manual adjusting the color of the voxel itself)
^^you know constructive criticism again. No stupid "urgh, voxel, what ugly way of doing units" like you constantly ascribe to me.
But it's ok, maybe i should stop giving constructive criticism. It seems the "oooh, how nice" posts are now more welcome. You know, there was a time where we showed stuff to get feedback on how to make it even better. But i guess these times are over.
MasterHaosis wrote:
I think they are arguing because of something which happened in their staff forums.
Do I missed something? Do you know more than me, even if you're not part of the TI staff!? Last edited by Lin Kuei Ominae on Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:58 pm; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
LKO, it's like asking for antialiasing against terrain. Nobody wants to go through the vast development cycle to fix something that isn't so much broken as unimplemented in the TS/RA2 engines.
The 'washed out' look could perhaps be tweaked by playing with the extra unit light majiger, but they really do look fine as is imo. The Lasher especially is a sexy, sexy voxel. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:26 pm Post subject:
Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
4. concerning false light: obviously the voxel in the last screenshot have the sides almost with the same brightness as the top. In RA2 though, the sides are much brighter than the top giving the "false light" effect, false lighht because actually the top needs to be brighter than the sides.
And with my "washed out" comment i only wanted to point out, that it would be nice to give the upward facing voxel a bit more brightness. (either by vpl or by manual adjusting the color of the voxel itself)
^^you know constructive criticism again. No stupid "urgh, voxel, what ugly way of doing units" like you constantly ascribe to me.
Why? Why should the top be brighter? Shadows go to the topright corner, so the voxel shall be lighted from the sides. Probably WW made the engine having lighter sides to actually make them more visible.
Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
But it's ok, maybe i should stop giving constructive criticism. It seems the "oooh, how nice" posts are now more welcome. You know, there was a time where we showed stuff to get feedback on how to make it even better. But i guess these times are over.
No, there are still places for constructive criticism. But what you're doing is as constructive as suggesting to use alphaimage particles instead of the manual light upon your Nod Tech Center iow, pointless nitpick noone cares about but only you. _________________ "If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
=======================
Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more... QUICK_EDIT
Whoa, I always miss the best drama. The only comment that I must reply to is this:
Sane wrote:
Another example is how Erastus' work on TI completely outshines the work done by everyone on your team.
Your primeval anti-TI attitude is prominent right here. Our project had nothing to do with with Erastus' voxels in this thread, but you just had to go and denounce all the work we've put into TI. Everyone of us is specialized in something and Erastus is in voxels (and concept art, but that's another story), so you cannot lambaste our maps and music just because his voxels are gorgeous. If you're only referring to voxels, which is not clear from your post at all, then you have a point, but we did have another capable artist called Shin who made a few excellent voxels as well (namely the Carryall and the Mammoth Mk. II). Nowhere as many as Erastus did, but Shin's work is at least on par with his.
Anyhow, enough of petty quarrels. Top-notch voxels Erastus, as always _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 10 Dec 2012 Location: I'm too busy conquering the world!
Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:56 pm Post subject:
@people who talks about TI. Cut the crap out. No need to be hostile to each other. Thank you.
@Eratus, any chance you will be releasing the Humvee? I can't help it, but keep on thinking about it because it looks so perfect and My mod is missing Humvee. I haven't been able to start a good Humvee template.
These voxels are very nicely done. _________________ Mod Leader and founder of World Domination
Do I missed something? Do you know more than me, even if you're not part of the TI staff!?
I do not know either you are joking or not, but here is answer to your question:
Aro wrote:
Because you know as well as I do that the only reason you even responded to LKO's feedback is because of comments passed back and forth from what is said inside the staff forum to you in some way or form, so your opinions are always biased, ........
Moar Stuff!
Buildups for the Barracks and Gun Turret pretty much done for both Temperate and Snow Theaters.
Just as a note, none of these beta style buildings were based off the ones previously released, after being stuck for years with those rather low quality ones i decided to make my own versions from scratch, i hope the extra effort has paid off to make these the best versions created so far. :3
Barracks!
Gun Turret!
Introducing the Allied War factory!
Enjoy!
And as always. . .Moar Soon! :3 _________________
Silly taco fumbling unicorns nocturnally launch basketballs, Hell March. QUICK_EDIT
This is definitely still a WIP, was going to save it till later on . . . but what the hell! _________________
Silly taco fumbling unicorns nocturnally launch basketballs, Hell March. QUICK_EDIT
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