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Age of Mythology: The Rise of Rome
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Orac
President


Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:11 pm    Post subject:  Age of Mythology: The Rise of Rome
Subject description: Many Renders, No Game Content
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(In Private Mods because I'm still researching the functionality of the engine)

In a few of my off hours during the year I investigated the possibilities of the Age of Mythology engine for a rather substantial mod.  The engine is beginning to show its age a little, but I still believe that visually the game holds up surprisingly well in terms of the visual design which went into it.

Technically, there's a reasonable amount that can be done with it, since Age of Mythology deviates from the standard Age of Empires formula with godpowers, a slightly more complex combat system, some passive resource generation mechanics, and some very special weapon effects.  Also, the game is the first Age of Empires to tread the 3D realm so there are all the subtle differences is implementation of movement, splash damage, pathfinding, and so on.  The game is made up a hundreds of files of XML, so I'm learning a little bit of that (but it's definitely my weakness).

Anywho, from the title you can probably guess that I'm having a go at adding in the Romans.  The Romans don't fit perfectly since most of their mythology was directly lifted from the Greeks, a faction which is already present.

Because of this, I'm making an attempt to avoid the things the two sides have in common and going for the things that set them apart.  In AoM, the Greeks were a very standard AoE side with all the unit roles you expect from an AoE game, they just had some mythical creatures and magical powers in their lineup too.
Since I'm limiting myself with the "limit Greek overlap" rule, I intend to go for a more superstitious than mythological Rome.  Many godpowers and heroes will give area-of-effect bonuses to units - upping defense or attack or productivity or the like, and myth units will be more spectral in nature than the Cyclopses and Fenris Wolves of the other factions.

More info as I locate my design documents - tech tree is in a sort of mid-level of wipness.  Here are some renders:


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Last edited by Orac on Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:17 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Orac
President


Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

5 Attachment Maximum.  More renders:


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Dutchygamer
President


Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands

PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How would stuff like Favor generation work? The most used ways - praying, battle, monuments and claimed settlements - are already taken.
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Orac
President


Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want to use Triumphal Columns as Roman favor generation.  I think I can get them to work like a mix between Greek praying and Egyptian monuments: There are two types of column, Military and Civilian, which generate a tiny trickle of favor by default.  When units and structures of their variety are within a given radius their generation rate increases substantially.
Thus, a civilian column nearby to a group of villagers working on farms would generate favor more quickly than a military column in the same place.  The same would be true in the reverse direction with a civilian column surrounded by barrackses and fortresses.

I am aware that this is pretty much Monuments with a few extra rules, but as you say all the other feasible ways are already taken.

I would hope that this would give a Roman player an incentive to plan out his city for maximum favor.

The two column models are visible in the "Rome 6.png" render.

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Regulus
Commander


Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Location: The Lone Star State

PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These look awesome. I have never seen or played the game being modded here, but they look really neat. I love the terracotta on brick style. Very Roma.

My only um, advice?, is that as far as houses go, most Roman houses besides apartments (where a majority of Romans lived) had holes in the roof, and the roof slanted inward to this hole. In the room below was a small pool called an Impulvium, where the family kept rainwater for drinking, cooking, and what not. Most houses had this feature as most of Rome didn't have running water, even with aqueducts. Most homes also had a open air courtyard that a garden was kept in.

But, all of this is purely shitpicking. They look really great.
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Orac
President


Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The houses have to be reasonably small for gameplay purposes, so I chose to model each one after a part of a standard villa/townhouse/farmhouse/etc.  The L-shaped house is intended to help fulfill the role of inward sloping courtyard when four are positioned in a square.
Garden elements and Impulvium are both good ideas for props though.

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0warfighter0
Commander


Joined: 07 Dec 2007
Location: Belgium, Haasdonk

PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those buildings are looking quite nice.

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DonutArnold
General


Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks pretty! Though I haven't played Age of Mythology...

Heh, just realized that, Orac, when did you learn to do proper UVW mapping?

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Hecthor Doomhammer
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Joined: 07 Apr 2013
Location: Hecthor Doomhammer Streaming Service HQ

PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking good!
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Volgin
Commander


Joined: 07 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is Rome going to have a Titan unit?
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Dutchygamer
President


Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands

PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Volgin wrote:
Is Rome going to have a Titan unit?

Good question. Is this mod for AoM or AoM:T (the expack)?
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Orac
President


Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm eyeing up something Typhon ("The Father of Monsters") inspired for Rome's titan.  Typhon is said to have dwelt beneath Mount Etna, which is Italian enough for me.

DonutArnold wrote:

Heh, just realized that, Orac, when did you learn to do proper UVW mapping?

Some time around the third or fourth attempt on the houses. #Tongue

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Madin
Cyborg Cannon


Joined: 05 Apr 2009

PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very nice work!
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Sir Shockwave
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 06 Sep 2011

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's another question - what kind of Myth Units are you planning? Because Roman myth has a lot of overlap with Greece, moreso after the Romans conquered Ancient Greece (Which I would assume is either the plot of the Hypothetical Campaign, or an event that didn't happen).

Quick EDIT - Typhon is also a Greek Deity X3

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Orac
President


Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm probably going to go pretty Nymph and Guiding Spirit heavy with myth units.  Which I think fits with my aims for the Roman myth/godpower side of things being primarily in support roles, with the human soldiers being the primary form of offense.
This works with the ideas of predestination and fate present in Roman storytelling, where mortals are pieces, moved around the board of some vast and sometimes malevolent game by dueling gods.

For a campaign I'm thinking I'd follow Aeneas from the fall of Troy up to the founding of his kingdom in Albalonga.  Or perhaps I'd avoid the heavy amount of scripting and lack of gameplay available to be mined from the Aeneid, and go with some sort of parallel expedition - maybe the soldiers who covered Aeneas's escape set sail after him and follow the trail of destruction he leaves in Carthage and so on.  Maybe they could even fight Odysseus/Ulysses!  And then they'd meet up with Aeneas when he's fighting against Turnus, and we'd end on that really dark note just like the ending of the Aeneid.
I like these ideas, and I love mapping in the AoM engine, so should I be able to get these things in game and functioning, campaigns there will be.

Typhon appears in both Roman and Greek myth, is not present in the base game, and was said to dwell beneath Mount Etna, Sicily.  So I call fair game #Tongue

'Nother render.  Either a government centre for late game researches (should probably go for something closer to a part of the Forum Romanum though), or a Wonder (should go for part of the Palatine Hill though), or a map prop.  houses and triumphal columns are for scale:


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Dutchygamer
President


Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Make the Colosseum the Wonder #Tongue
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Madin
Cyborg Cannon


Joined: 05 Apr 2009

PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.moddb.com/games/0-ad

This engine seems nice and is opened source, although I'll admit I have no idea how much trouble it would be to mod vs the engine you've chosen (or how much research you have done!).

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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madin, I think it depends on how much of the original game content he want to keep. If he simply wants to add a new faction, it is better to use Age of Mythology than coding the other factions from scratch in an unknown engine.

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HG_SCIPCION
Cyborg Artillery


Joined: 07 Jun 2013
Location: Perú

PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mmmmm..... the buildings of rome tw is more good :3
.....
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Orac
President


Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

0 AD is more complex than I'm comfortable with, and lacks a lot of the infrastructure required to recreate AoM.
In Age of Mythology, each time you age up you are given a choice between two patron deities, each one has a godpower (pretty much a superweapon), a myth unit (cyclops, minotaur, sphinx, etc), and some unique upgrades.  Recreating this for 0 AD would require a lot of coding, something I'm not good at.
0 AD's map editor also lacks a lot of the really useful condition and event options present in AoM.

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Orac
President


Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've actually been hard at work on this.  Well not hard at work.  I guess the point I'm getting to is that I've started on some of the code.

No ingame screenies since the code isn't 100% working, per se #Tongue
And the textures all need to be compiled for the engine.


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DonutArnold
General


Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting, it seems to use html-stylish coding... or actually xml as the file name says. #Tongue

Have you done any new buildings or units?

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Orac
President


Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right now I'm working on putting together and debugging the Town Center, Villager, and such.  I'm starting with them because I need them all to work before I can test anything else.
And my hacks to the exe are a bit hamfisted at the moment, but I *think* I've upped some of the hardcoded caps without any noticeable side effects.

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Steve_1993
Rocket Infantry


Joined: 06 Aug 2013
Location: Somewhere in Greece

PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have done a great job,so far.Keep up the good work,my friend!!
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Orac
President


Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This project has actually continued, surprisingly enough.  I've been using it to improve my modeling and uvw mapping abilities.

I've finished a high enough percentage of the structures to begin reworking them for the four different ages of the game.
Shown here is one of the three house variants, at Archaic, Classical, and Heroic ages.  In designing the different appearances I've tried to follow the standard criteria of the game (structures become larger and textures become lighter from age to age).  The designs for the Archaic and Classical take their cues from Etruscan, Alba-Longan and Rural Roman style, or at least the artists impressions and archaeology regarding these groups.
I've also reworked the temple for the Classical age, though this takes some liberties with the real architectural sensibilities of the Romans.


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Orac
President


Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This has remained in the back of my mind for a while now, and despite my lack of time for doing this sort of thing there's a reasonable amount of stuff which has been modeled and rendered.  I think I'm close to the half way point on modeling, UV unwrapping, and texturing all the structures, which I think is pretty cool.

Still not much working code though, so I'm still not willing to call this anything more than a bunch of pretty OK models at this point.

Anyway, I made the Town Center today and felt like showing off the vast majority of the semi-finished models.


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0warfighter0
Commander


Joined: 07 Dec 2007
Location: Belgium, Haasdonk

PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fact that not only houses have alternate models is pretty neat.

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Darkstorm
Commander


Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Location: Unknown

PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I never commented on this when it was created a while back. I have to say I'm interested and impressed. I'm a huge fan of Age of Mythology. I love it even more so than Age of Empires really because it seemed to be a more unique game. I could always play one of the many Total War games if I really want the thrill of historical combat, and whether it's a better experience is a debate for another time, but there really is no other game that involves mythological combat on Age of Mythology's scale.

I'm glad to see someone is looking to do some seriously in-depth modding with it. I've added some unit clones at best, never anything like this. I did try to make a real United States faction in Age of Empires 3, which has similar xml usage but I could never get it to work like I wanted.

Anyhow, I'm interested to hear how you've planned the mortal-side of the tech tree. I like your idea with columns generating favor in the manner you described, but each faction has a unique way of getting heroes as well as a unique way of gathering resources. Added, mortal units tend to vary between factions; Egyptian units are the weakest and cheapest, Atlantean units are the strongest but the most expensive.
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Orac
President


Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For heroes, I'm thinking of them having two types.  The first would be a statesman, who gives area buffs to civilian productivity and bestows that kind of benefit.  The second would be a general, giving similar bonuses to military units and buildings.  It's all part of the division between civilian and military which is present throughout the faction's design.  The Major Gods are Jupiter, Mars, and Quirinus.  Mars gives military bonuses, being the god of war.  Quirinus gives civil bonuses, since he's the god of the state.  Jupiter gives bonuses to both sides of the coin, but less substantial ones since he's king of the gods.

I'd like to give the granary (farms and food) and the storage pit (gold and wood) area bonuses too.  Like having the granary fatten up (maybe even produce?) livestock.

I'd like to introduce some sort of horde bonus to military units to encourage their use as massed ranks of legionaries or whatnot.  I'm not totally sure tbh, since I want to give a lot of their myth units passive area bonuses (or in a few cases, area nerfs) for nearby military or civilian units.

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