Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:30 pm Post subject:
Odd Image= bug
SO!
For my mod, I've given Soviets and Yuri an airpad each, because I'm generous like that.
I used Image= to change the look of their respective radars, added the airpad stuff, and so forth.
HOWEVER! this isn't so great in campaign, well, no worries thinks I, just use Image= in the campaign maps, it'll make everything look how it does in vanilla.
WRONG!
It seems that both sets of art get loaded, instead of the maps Image= overriding the Rulesmd Image=, as seen here:
Image=NARADR
and here:
Image=GAAIRC
(also note the cameos are loaded wrong)
Is it possible to force the game to respect Image= properly using Ares?
I'll submit a feature request/bugfix request too if you'd like, just tell me which one this is considered as......
(I've tested this with 0.5 and Alex's 0.6 branch too, not sure about vanilla though) _________________ MIdAS - Turning wages into beer since 2002 QUICK_EDIT
I'd suggest you test it with vanilla first, to make sure it's not Ares related.
Did you only add Image= to the structure, without removing any airpad specific keys?
It appears to be consistent, both 'new' cameos are shown, both show the airpad and radar dish animation. _________________
It's odd, because it behaves like the Radar dish, (2x2 foundation, etc) but also has the art of the airpad.
Changing which airpad it looked like was simply to show it wasn't a misplaced art file or bad coding on my part. _________________ MIdAS - Turning wages into beer since 2002 QUICK_EDIT
I'm not sure whether this is an Ares issue, and if it is, how important it is. What keeps you from just using two different building types that can coexist? _________________ QUICK_EDIT
I'd advise you to check it with vanilla too.
I can change a normal 3x3 civilian building into a nuke without any problems (animations and all play).
Using these things on map level isn't always error-free, I've noticed it myself as well.
Best thing to do is creating a clone or something. Adjust prerequisites the way you see fit (you can use a map script if it's required more than once) and it should solve the issues. _________________
Even if you use Image=(ex. GAAIRC) on the object (ex. NARADR), it will still retain the original's features if they were not overriden by the Image='s entry.
For example, if GAAIRC had ActiveAnimTwo tag specified and it would be missing in NARADR, ActiveAnimTwo from GAAIRC would still be visible despite using Image=NARADR. If that's what you're talking about, then it's vanilla behavior. Ares has nothing to do with this issue. _________________ mentalomega.com QUICK_EDIT
Just disable the normal campaign buildings in your mod TechLevel=11 and add clone buildings just for your mod, and use Genericprereq's to fix any issues with building etc.. _________________ Grab my Map Logic Expansion Pack 5.2 here!
Adds random weather patterns into maps.
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thanks for the explaination. so it'd be a bugfix for this to not happen.
I know it's possible with clones and stuff, but editing the AI to reflect this will be annoying. _________________ MIdAS - Turning wages into beer since 2002 QUICK_EDIT
Just add AIBuildThis=no to the old one & AIBuildThis=yes to the new clone, I don't see how that could be annoying :/
No, getting the AI to attack radar, in AI scripts, will be annoying, doubly so if the player gets the ability to build airpads later in the campaign, as an upgrade to the radar. _________________ MIdAS - Turning wages into beer since 2002 QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:33 pm Post subject:
You can call the building in a different ID within rulesmd, e. g. NARADAR and then there is no image issue to mix. _________________ "If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
=======================
Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
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Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more... QUICK_EDIT
You can call the building in a different ID within rulesmd, e. g. NARADAR and then there is no image issue to mix.
Yeah, but as I've said, that opens AI issues, and it's still a bug.
You can re-order the vehicles list to keep buildable vehicles under #100, but at the core of it, there's still a bug. _________________ MIdAS - Turning wages into beer since 2002 QUICK_EDIT
AFAIK there isn't any scripts to specifically attack radars, they are just used in triggers. So open AImd.ini go to find - replace; NARADR - NARADR2 etc & your done.
Anyway why don't you just edit the buildings original code instead of using the Image= tag, that would solve the problem & not mess with the AI o.0 _________________
Joined: 18 Jun 2005 Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands
Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:53 am Post subject:
Mig Eater wrote:
MRMIdAS wrote:
getting the AI to attack radar, in AI scripts
AFAIK there isn't any scripts to specifically attack radars, they are just used in triggers. So open AImd.ini go to find - replace; NARADR - NARADR2 etc & your done.
Anyway why don't you just edit the buildings original code instead of using the Image= tag, that would solve the problem & not mess with the AI o.0
Scripts don't use object names, the use a very random number (can't quickly find which, but started with 13) + the location of the structure in the StructureTypes list. QUICK_EDIT
Yeah, he said triggers. I don't believe any scripts specifically refer to either of the radars at all, though there could be map specific ones in the campaign. QUICK_EDIT
For replacing the image of one building with another, make a copy of its SHPs and rename with the targetted
building name and adjust its artmd.ini entry. This will achieve what you are looking for and also avoid aimd.ini
changes. But different sides will start looking similar. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 18 Jun 2005 Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands
Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:45 pm Post subject:
OmegaBolt wrote:
Yeah, he said triggers. I don't believe any scripts specifically refer to either of the radars at all, though there could be map specific ones in the campaign.
There are both triggers and scripts associated with Radars in my AI, even so, I'm looking beyond radar as a scope for this, and it's a bug with vanilla, however you slice it. _________________ MIdAS - Turning wages into beer since 2002 QUICK_EDIT
I don't get whats all the fuss of just not using Buildings that don't use Image= Tags. Usually you'd only use this for something with the same graphics set up. (both buildings are 2x3)
From your pics it seems one is 2x3 and the other is 3x2...
If your scared of modifying the AI then your not much of a modder. Editing the AI is part of the core of changing the game to be more workable anyway. _________________ ~ Excelsior ~ QUICK_EDIT
The Image= is meant so multiple objects can share the same art code, it's not meant to be used to override one with another like you are trying to do.
What you should have done is;
Edit the buildings original code instead of trying to override it.
Disable/remove the original code so the game only reads the new code.
Make a clone of the building & edit it.
Everyone else has learned/accepted to do one of the above as standard coding practices, most of which only take a minute or two to do.
As such you are the only one here to consider this a "bug". _________________
If your scared of modifying the AI then your not much of a modder. Editing the AI is part of the core of changing the game to be more workable anyway.
Yeah, I think I proved I'm not when I said I have added my own scripts and trigger which use the various radars........
Mig Eater wrote:
The Image= is meant so multiple objects can share the same art code, it's not meant to be used to override one with another like you are trying to do.
Fair enough.
Mig Eater wrote:
What you should have done is;
Edit the buildings original code instead of trying to override it.
Disable/remove the original code so the game only reads the new code.
Make a clone of the building & edit it.
Everyone else has learned/accepted to do one of the above as standard coding practices, most of which only take a minute or two to do.
you seem to have your wires crossed there, I DID edit the original code, and made the radar dish into an airpad, it's trying to edit it back to original for the campaign, without having to mess about with clones, where the trouble started.
Mig Eater wrote:
As such you are the only one here to consider this a "bug".
As I said in my previous post, I could say the same about the 100 unit bug, even though everyone else had learned to re-order the units list, as standard coding practice, it was still a bug.
If I declare Image= on something, it shouldn't read from a different section of code too, whether everyone knows to work around it or not, it shouldn't happen. _________________ MIdAS - Turning wages into beer since 2002 QUICK_EDIT
you seem to have your wires crossed there, I DID edit the original code, and made the radar dish into an airpad, it's trying to edit it back to original for the campaign
Then it's not the fault of the Image= tag but the campaign maps for changing your code, so just edit the map files.
MRMIdAS wrote:
I could say the same about the 100 unit bug, even though everyone else had learned to re-order the units list, as standard coding practice, it was still a bug.
If I declare Image= on something, it shouldn't read from a different section of code too, whether everyone knows to work around it or not, it shouldn't happen.
The 100 unit bug is a hardcoded limit that can't be worked around. There are however several ways to fix this Image "bug" with little or no effort tho, so it isn't a fair comparison.
Saying it shouldn't happen is a bit presumptuous too, how do we know it isn't what WW intended, there are some instances where it's beneficial for the Image tag to work in this way. _________________
Then it's not the fault of the Image= tag but the campaign maps for changing your code, so just edit the map files.
??
What?
OK, in skirmish, I changed radar into airpad,
In campaign I want it back to default.
I undo changes made in map file, including Image=
This happens as a result.
Mig Eater wrote:
MRMIdAS wrote:
I could say the same about the 100 unit bug, even though everyone else had learned to re-order the units list, as standard coding practice, it was still a bug.
If I declare Image= on something, it shouldn't read from a different section of code too, whether everyone knows to work around it or not, it shouldn't happen.
The 100 unit bug is a hardcoded limit that can't be worked around. There are however several ways to fix this Image "bug" with little or no effort tho, so it isn't a fair comparison.
Saying it shouldn't happen is a bit presumptuous too, how do we know it isn't what WW intended, there are some instances where it's beneficial for the Image tag to work in this way.
If it was supposed to happen like that, why is the cameo broken too?
Also, wouldn't you redeclare the second activeanim if you wanted that to happen? _________________ MIdAS - Turning wages into beer since 2002 QUICK_EDIT
But this tag, "[NARADR]" will not exist in art file, nor will it have shp files with names associated with it.
Problem solved.
Basically if you have shp's or Art tags both with the same name as your normal rules code. You get inheritance issues. That being the game tries the best it can to stay stable so it looks for associations with the same name. Then it applies them. Then if it gets more information it applies it over it like a bandage.
So this makes perfect sense. Of course the game is finicky and it will read both its new image as well as whatever associations it has, which is why the cameo didn't change, it reads the art tag's with the same name as the building's name. The solution therefore is to have the building not have an association with anything, then it will inherit the Image= properly.
Of course Mig Eater already pointed this out. _________________ Grab my Map Logic Expansion Pack 5.2 here!
Adds random weather patterns into maps.
More disabled navalyards.
Preplaced Neutral buildings.
Additional new features.
I always try to prevent using Image key as good as possible. This key is really only a workaround for bad coding/mod planning and only in rare cases a way to improve performance.
e.g.
Using Image in art.ini is fine to reduce the number of loaded SHPs if several anims share the same graphics and this way improve performance.
Using Image in rules.ini means, you were too lazy to write proper matching art.ini codes and thus should be avoided as good as possible. Especially since Image in rules.ini has several negative sideeffects (e.g. in TS it ignores ZAdjust keys and their settings, thus the famous Refinery unload-anim bug in TS) _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
But this tag, "[NARADR]" will not exist in art file, nor will it have shp files with names associated with it.
Problem solved.
Nope, that gives the bug I have.
In my rules, I have
[NARADR]
Image=NAPAD ;Airpad graphics
in the map file, I have
[NARADR]
Image=NARADR ;Radar Graphics, should override NAPAD graphics from rules _________________ MIdAS - Turning wages into beer since 2002 QUICK_EDIT
Why not just create a second building for MP and disallow each when necessary then modify prerequisites with generics? If you use Ares, new prereq groups. This is a waste of time to fix when you have better options. _________________ KGR | AT
AZUR
Discord: theastronomer1836
Steam QUICK_EDIT
Why not just create a second building for MP and disallow each when necessary then modify prerequisites with generics? If you use Ares, new prereq groups. This is a waste of time to fix when you have better options.
I'm not saying I won't, can't or haven't, I'm pointing out that it's something that shouldn't happen, but does, a bug.
It'd just be easier for the end user to not have to do that. _________________ MIdAS - Turning wages into beer since 2002 QUICK_EDIT
[NARADR]
Image=NARADR ;Radar Graphics, should override NAPAD graphics from rules
EricAnimeFreak gave you the answer. See that your code is different and accept that Image key works not as you think it should work and you have your solution. (code in bold is crappy coding with redundant keys)
Image key does not mean, forget old graphics, take new graphic. It means take a few keys here, ignore a few keys there, and create something that is unstable and only for temporary patchwork.
MRMIdAS wrote:
I'm not saying I won't, can't or haven't, I'm pointing out that it's something that shouldn't happen, but does, a bug.
It'd just be easier for the end user to not have to do that.
This is called modding. It's not, Ares team, please fix a bug because I'm too lazy to change my code into a working way. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
It'd just be easier for the end user to not have to do that.
The end user doesn't have to do shit. The mid-tier user (IE; us) have to do the work. Just do the goddamn work. It's not hard and will take all of 30 minutes to do. Hell, you'd be done working on it if you would just do something else instead of insisting there's a bug that needs to be fixed. Bug, maybe but needs to be fixed? lolnope. _________________ KGR | AT
AZUR
Discord: theastronomer1836
Steam QUICK_EDIT
It'd just be easier for the end user to not have to do that.
The end user doesn't have to do shit. The mid-tier user (IE; us) have to do the work. Just do the goddamn work. It's not hard and will take all of 30 minutes to do. Hell, you'd be done working on it if you would just do something else instead of insisting there's a bug that needs to be fixed. Bug, maybe but needs to be fixed? lolnope.
I like your implication that I'm not done working on it.
also, while there isn't a great rush for it to be fixed, it'd be nice to have it fixed, and no, the end user probably won't notice for the most part, but it'd be another bug fixed. _________________ MIdAS - Turning wages into beer since 2002 QUICK_EDIT
Image key has serious limits to it, as it can not even declare new foundation and instead original building ID foundation is used so expecting such advancedly refined functionality is a bit much asked from Westwood programmers who mostly did the basics needed and fixing it would probably be more of a issue given how much it would have to consider reading in all keys again.
I wouldn't expect fix anytime soon if ever depending what AlexB thinks of the issue. QUICK_EDIT
Given Westwood's penchant for spectacular failures in coding design and practices, there's a really high chance that fixing this minor bug will be more trouble than it's worth. Plain and simple: don't use Image on buildings to change their appearance. It just don't work. _________________ KGR | AT
AZUR
Discord: theastronomer1836
Steam QUICK_EDIT
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Odd Image= bug
