Joined: 10 Dec 2012 Location: I'm too busy conquering the world!
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:21 am Post subject:
Resetting the Building Process
I looked up in the Ares, but I didn't see what I was looking for. (I'm not sure what reserve-engineering does exactly, but I'm assuming that if the spy enter, it resets the building such as if you are half-way to finish Superweapon Structure, it resets?)
What I'm looking for is that when a spy enter Conyard, it will reset all of the enemy's current building progression, making them start it over again.
If this hasn't been implied, probably Ares Team should really add this feature. I have research technologies and being able to enter Conyard with spy to reset the whole building process is needed for the mod I'm working on. _________________ Mod Leader and founder of World Domination
I think the only problem with this is what would happen to the money the spied Con Yard. Would the money be refunded back or would it get consumed in the process as if it was cancelled. _________________ ~ Excelsior ~ QUICK_EDIT
It'd be such a waste of a Spy too. For one you don't know if they're building anything and if they are you don't know if they've only just started it or are about to finish. You'd also have no idea of the outcome, which is bad. Every other spy effect returns something to the player, a visible indicator of it's success. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:11 am Post subject:
Atomic_Noodles wrote:
Also... infiltrating ConYards lets you see what that player is constructing though...
Only if you set it as such. If you don't set SpyEffect.RevealProduction, then not.
Zero18, what you ask for is not done and it's not even related to reverse-engineering at all. Because reverse-engineering is this: http://youtu.be/PNsK3-Putz0?t=1m58s
The related SpyEffect.UndoReverseEngineer tag does ExactlyWhatItSaysOnTheTin as in: when the Spy enters the building, all reverse-engineered unit options are lost. _________________ "If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
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Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
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WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more... QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:11 am Post subject:
He can. EMP. _________________ "If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
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Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more... QUICK_EDIT
I don't consider a SpyEffect like this missing from Ares, for the exact same reasons OmegaBolt gave: You can't see what's happening, and the results may vary. The player always loses the spy. On average, the enemy loses half an object's worth in cash; if nothing is constructed, 0 credits. You don't know what it will be and you don't know whether your tactic is doing you any good at all. You don't know whether you are investing time and money to gain nothing. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 16 Feb 2005 Location: North America Posts: You cannot comprehend...
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:09 pm Post subject:
You could still build things though. He means shutting down the CY so no structures or defenses can be built for a time. _________________ Destroy to create. All for the hunt to dominate!
i think what he means by "start over again" is that when a ConYard is infiltrated, the player has to start the teching up from scratch. like building power plant first, then refinery and barracks etc. _________________ <----- Clickable QUICK_EDIT
That would screw up the entire prerequisite structure if you did that though as it would have to not count currently built buildings and that's a long drawn out process that would be far from worth it. _________________ "Don't beg for things; Do it yourself or you'll never get anything." QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 10 Dec 2012 Location: I'm too busy conquering the world!
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:21 pm Post subject:
ImP_RuLz wrote:
i think what he means by "start over again" is that when a ConYard is infiltrated, the player has to start the teching up from scratch. like building power plant first, then refinery and barracks etc.
Definitely Not.
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What I meant was that when the spy infiltrates the Conyard, here is a scenario how it will happen.
1. Spy enters the enemy Conyard.
2. Checks if Enemy Conyard is production is in process.
3. If their production is in process, your spy will cancel it, causing it to reset.
Suppose if your enemy is building Nuke Silo, you send in your spy and the opponent is halfway done with Nuke Silo. When your spy enters enemy Conyard, he will cancel the process of building Nuke Silo, all money can be either lost or refund.
Similar to when you decide to put on hold then cancel.
Say, you can add this feature for Ares 0.7. I definitely think it will be very cool idea to expand spy features.
Code:
SpyEffect.ResetProduction=yes
Anything that can create such as Conyard, barrack, war factory can be ideal to use this tag, thus cancelling all of their queued production when the spy infiltrates the structures with this tag.
But I also thought of another idea while typing this. How about delaying enemy production for a time period?
I just don't think its feasible myself when its very easy to make a limbo launching EMP weapon for said Spy that only works on a conyard or whatever target you want. This would create the same effect. _________________ "Don't beg for things; Do it yourself or you'll never get anything." QUICK_EDIT
why? this is worthless idea... If a mod had this concept in game I would not play it. Can we please have some thing constructive. You are giving the AI another function to go crazy over and if you are making it for Human vs Human play only.......... Hello ever hear of a wall? It stops spies & engineers from entering a building.
'Sides, I have yet to see the spy function work flawless with any other side other then Allied. _________________ I am authorized to send out the TMP Studio, PM ME IF YOU WANT IT And check this out, these were sent to me for help with terrain and zdata help along with TMP Studio/Builder
Joined: 10 Dec 2012 Location: I'm too busy conquering the world!
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:46 pm Post subject:
Nikademis Von Hisson wrote:
why? this is worthless idea... If a mod had this concept in game I would not play it. Can we please have some thing constructive. You are giving the AI another function to go crazy over and if you are making it for Human vs Human play only.......... Hello ever hear of a wall? It stops spies & engineers from entering a building.
'Sides, I have yet to see the spy function work flawless with any other side other then Allied.
And you are going to say same thing about Battle Lab being walled. Yet all spy actions are optional. You didn't have to infiltrate their battle lab to get some sort of technology. Instead you could have dropped nuke and say that your work is done.
Spying only give minor advantage over enemy sides. If I want to have spy infiltrate enemy Conyard to reset production. Yes it is intended for human vs human and thus it gives more reason for the human player to wall up Conyard or build attack dogs to secure their base.
Obviously they don't get it. My research technology is x3 the normal build time and I want spy function to reset it over so that the enemy do not have the research advantage over you.
The E.M.P function will put the production on hold I believe, but it is not what I want. I want the ability to reset enemy production.
I do not want limbo function for spy. I just want new and simple spy function with the ability to reset the production which can be also used on War Factory, Barracks, Air force HQ and the like. I'm not only talking about Conyard, I'm also talking about these as well too. Inflitrating enemy conyard can be also rewarding as well too if your enemy don't guard Conyard well. How will hard it be to imply these function for Ares?
AI don't have the "brain" to play like a real human player and therefore you can always expect AI to wall important structures. But human players? Some do and some DON'T.
AlexB wrote:
I don't consider a SpyEffect like this missing from Ares.
Well it is. You need to add SpyEffect.ResetProduction feature because atm the spy only acquires, but not resetting. Giving the spy ability to reset production will be sabotaging enemy production which adds new mix to tactics. I don't get it why most of you are resisting the this idea. I thought this was pretty cool idea to set backfire on your enemy if they don't protect their production structures. _________________ Mod Leader and founder of World Domination
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:20 pm Post subject:
Have you ever checked what happens when a Factory= set building gets EMPd? No?
Come back when you did. Please. It's more annoying then you could imagine. You entirely LOSE the queue if you don't have a spare one. So much that after the EMP is gone the NCO announcement is even made.
Really, that SpyEffect isn't needed due to the aforementioned limbo EMP which would have a lot better use-case and much more nicer result than creating a new tag which achieves the same just because some person can't mod. _________________ "If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
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Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more... QUICK_EDIT
[SpySabotage]
Damage=1
ROF=30
Range=3
CellRangefinding=yes
Projectile=DOGJUMP
Speed=30
LimboLaunch=yes ; Limbo shooter at launch (one shot or become the bullet)
FireInTransport=no;can't fire out of the BattleFortress
Warhead=SpySabotageWH
Simple as that, now you have a Spy that can reset and turn off the production of the allied Conyard and Warfactory for 1 minute. As Graion said, it's VERY ANNOYING if you have it happen to you. This is why a new tag isn't needed. Ares should be only for things that are currently IMPOSSIBLE to do in my opinion. _________________ "Don't beg for things; Do it yourself or you'll never get anything." QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:29 am Post subject:
You have to set ImmuneToEMP to no upon the War Factory tho. Maybe as well upon ConYard, it was a while when I last played with it. _________________ "If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
=======================
Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more... QUICK_EDIT
Actually, I didn't set ImmuneToEMP at all on the structure and it still worked, so maybe that's bugged?
Suicide=yes is kinda pointless on the weapon as AFAIK because he's not a Parasite=yes and straight disappears anyway.
You could make an EVA report for the spy and have a different spy for each team, probably the only way it wouldn't match would be when he gets mind controlled, but its your mod, so you should be able to find ways around that _________________ "Don't beg for things; Do it yourself or you'll never get anything." QUICK_EDIT
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Resetting the Building Process
