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OS HVA Builder 2.2 WIP 1
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stucuk
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Joined: 27 Aug 2002

PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 3:46 pm    Post subject:  OS HVA Builder 2.2 WIP 1 Reply with quote

Attached is a Work In Progress of 2.2 . It should be stable.

Changes:
  • Fixed: "View Transform"
  • Added: Grid
  • Added: Section Center
  • Added: Screenshot all voxels (Every voxel in or under the apps directory)
  • Changed: VSync is now on (Limits the FPS, good for laptops)
  • Changed: Remap Colour is defaultly white
  • Changed: Highlight now Flashes
  • Changed: Will no longer use Voxels Matrix when no HVA exists
  • Improved: Ignores voxels which won't be rendered
  • Improved: Ignores hidden voxel faces when HVA exists


It also uses the updated VH Engine found in OSVV (with some modifications).

As its a WIP you need to overwrite 2.1 with it. It won't run by its self (Since its missing the palettes).

Note: Section Center should draw the 3 lines in the Center of the actual section, not the center of the voxels that are visible (The center of the voxel's bounds basically).


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G-E
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any chance you could make the highlighted section intensity less? Often with complex units the coloured blob hides some of the features we're trying to focus on.

Another nice addition would be to allow a user to make one or more sections translucent or nearly invisible.

Perhaps add an input box to mimic TurretOffset that someone can enter. I wouldn't worry about saving it in any way, just enter it when you're working on the model and let it get discarded when a new one loads. This would allow more accurate display before we start moving things.
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Graion Dilach
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please add custom palette support. OpenRA now has it, replacing them in the folder for each custompal'd voxel is tedious.
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stucuk
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Joined: 27 Aug 2002

PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G-E wrote:
Any chance you could make the highlighted section intensity less? Often with complex units the coloured blob hides some of the features we're trying to focus on.


Did you try the WIP build before you wrote that?

Graion Dilach wrote:
Please add custom palette support. OpenRA now has it, replacing them in the folder for each custompal'd voxel is tedious.

Without elaboration no. I am not going to download OpenRA or look at tutorials for it on how its systems work (I don't even have TA or RA2 installed on any of the computers i have here).
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Banshee
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He means a way to choose another palette than unittem.pal.

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Orac
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So it's hardcoded to use the default original TS unittem.pal then?

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stucuk
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Banshee wrote:
He means a way to choose another palette than unittem.pal.

He never said that.

His post would suggest that OpenRA loads a custom palette for a voxel (Per voxel if the voxel uses one), but how it works out what palette to load is what the question is (I.E Does it use VOXELNAME.pal).

So like i said. Without elaboration on exactly whats required it won't be implemented.

Orac wrote:
So it's hardcoded to use the default original TS unittem.pal then?


TS and RA2 palettes for voxels are practically identical (Except RA2 has pink where the remappables are iirc.. which are ignored anyway).
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Graion Dilach
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I'd ask for is a similar system to SHP Builder/VXLSE use: instead of having it all fixed to unittem, there should be an option on the menu where the user can select a palette read from HVA Builder/Palettes folder.
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stucuk
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Attached is the next version.

  • Fixes setting the HVA Position via the menu option (Where you manually enter the coords).
  • Grid now uses MipMaps
  • HVA Positioning is no longer scaled by the Voxel Section's Scale


It should now render G-E's halo correctly (Though if it will then screw up other VXL's i don't know).

Graion Dilach wrote:
What I'd ask for is a similar system to SHP Builder/VXLSE use: instead of having it all fixed to unittem, there should be an option on the menu where the user can select a palette read from HVA Builder/Palettes folder.


So OpenRA allocates palettes using the INI files (Or its equivlent) for custom palettes?


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Mig Eater
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big improvement Smile I love the grid, one of the things from DMZ's editor that I missed.

The section center option seams to be misaligned on vxls that have been scaled down tho. Which I presume is related to the problem I pointed out here.
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Graion Dilach
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stucuk wrote:
So OpenRA allocates palettes using the INI files (Or its equivlent) for custom palettes?


Yes.
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stucuk
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mig Eater wrote:
The section center option seams to be misaligned on vxls that have been scaled down tho. Which I presume is related to the problem I pointed out here.


Screenshots are nice at showing a problem but can't be used by me to test if changes i make work. Kinda need vxl's sent to me which don't work for me to attempt to fix rendering code.

WIP 3 should do the Center Section's better, though i will need to implement a way of rendering the bounds of the sections to properly work out if its actually using the right coordinates (Since the voxels you see may not take up the whole bounds). At the very least it should serve as a reference point when moving sections.

P.S If you want to change the Grid you just need to modify the grid.png file (You can change the colours, distance between lines and make it semi transparent). Technically you can have it at any size but it should be a power of two number to be safe (Older cards don't like sizes that are not power of two). The Red.png is for the highlight. You can change it to any colour.


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CCHyper
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice to see your still around stucuk!

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Graion Dilach
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cannot spot any issues with voxels in this, btw. I don't remember I have a voxel which has bugged animation in TS tho, but this renders both my working-in-YR-messed-up-in-OpenRA and remade-hva-for-OpenRA voxels correct.
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Aro
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great! Nice work and welcome back. Smile

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Mig Eater
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The new WIP 3 fixed the alignment issues Smile
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G-E
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good job Smile
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stucuk
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Been playing with the Interface. Still got stuff to do but it is cleaner (Making room for the Section List rather than a horrible drop down box).

Note that i know that the new icons on the new buttons look crap. But i am a programmer not an artist and its not important to me. If you want them to look nice you would need to send me nicer images (Ones you made yourself and didn't rip from other sources). In order they are Show Highlight, Draw Center, Draw Grid and Draw Section Center (The other settings were moved to the settings menu).

Custom palette system is technically implemented but you can't actually set the palette in the HVA Builder yet. What i have currently implemented is a system which will remember which palette you last used for a voxel (It uses the entire path to the file not just the filename so two files with the same name but different path are treated as seperate voxels). So once you have set the palette for a voxel you should never have to do so again (Unless you move it to a different folder or rename it #Tongue ). Note that it will only support 1 palette per unit (As in the barrel and turret will use the same palette as the base).

No new build yet, just a teaster.


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Banshee
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stucuk wrote:
P.S If you want to change the Grid you just need to modify the grid.png file (You can change the colours, distance between lines and make it semi transparent). Technically you can have it at any size but it should be a power of two number to be safe (Older cards don't like sizes that are not power of two).


Why don't you use a shader for the Grid? I think that the result would be more reliable than using a texture.

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stucuk
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Banshee wrote:
Why don't you use a shader for the Grid? I think that the result would be more reliable than using a texture.


1. Minimum OpenGL 2.0 requirement (OS HVA is made using OpenGL 1.5 headers)
2. Texture with mipmapping looks perfectly acceptable
3. Waste of time coding for something which won't have any real noticeable difference.
4. People can modify a simple PNG (Which was simple to implement since it just uses the Ground system that OS VV uses and which is built into the VH Engine) in a paint application to change how their grid looks. They are less likely to be able to modify a shader (Well understand how to program it).
5. I am not actually sure if it would be better. Mipmaps smooth it out at further distances, but i would imagine a shader would suffer from the same problem as not using mipmaps where it would struggle to pick the right colour at distance.

EDIT: Looks overly complicated to even try and get past the problems and it doesn't look like you can't get a method thats cheap and which looks noticeably better.

- http://stackoverflow.com/questions/30842755/how-can-i-render-an-infinite-2d-grid-in-glsl
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Banshee
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, I guess it is better to use textures in this case.

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stucuk
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Next Build (See last attachment).

Interface is now cleaner and should be easier to use (No more drop downs!.. well technically they are still there but hidden...). You can now hide sections by clicking on their icons in the section list (It will always display the currently selected section irrespective of if you have set it to be hidden). This build also has the ability to set palettes for voxels (Only when loaded in HVA Builder).


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OSHVA_2.2_CustomPalette.png
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leave space for a TurretOffset input box Smile
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stucuk
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Found a bug with WIP 4. The hiding sections are toggled every time you click on a section (It just doesn't update the icon). Will be fixed in WIP 5 when its released.

G-E wrote:
Leave space for a TurretOffset input box Smile

Speaking of the turret offset, is it effected by hva/voxel scaling or is it just a value thats added on top.
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Graion Dilach
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It works totally not like anything else. I think TurretOffset uses TS/RA2 leptons.
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HG_SCIPCION
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:45 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

stucuk!!!! *-*

yes, now HVA buildder is better... thank you!

and this problem? ._.'


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stucuk
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graion Dilach wrote:
It works totally not like anything else. I think TurretOffset uses TS/RA2 leptons.

I know about the dividing by 256, just don't know if there is anything else that needs to be applied to it.

HG_SCIPCION wrote:
and this problem? ._.'

Its the Grid. What Graphics Card do you have? Did you extract the Grid.png to the same directory as the EXE? Does it always happen or only with certain voxels/etc.
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HG_SCIPCION
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the grapics card is from the windows installer :/ (windows 7) and yes... the file are in the folder...

:c
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stucuk
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have implemented TurretOffset but it is unlikely to match the games (Since i have no clue how many voxel's there are per map cell, i only know that there are 256 leptons per map cell).

I also made it so the buttons for View/Voxel Offset/HVA Position and HVA Rotation are down when that mode is the current one.

Attached is WIP 5.

HG_SCIPCION wrote:
the grapics card is from the windows installer :/ (windows 7) and yes... the file are in the folder...

:c


Graphics card is a part of your Computers hardware not software.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh, sorry... well, my PC is old (500mb ram free)

and thank you, the custom palette is perfect n.n
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Lin Kuei Ominae
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stucuk wrote:
I have implemented TurretOffset but it is unlikely to match the games (Since i have no clue how many voxel's there are per map cell, i only know that there are 256 leptons per map cell).

I think you render voxels 1:1 without any scaling. Ingame however the voxel Bounds from the voxel header are used to raise/lower the distance of the voxel to each other, thus making them overlap or place further apart (often causing holes, e.g. the famous black hole syndrome)

So for a correct working TurretOffset you would have to find a way to render the voxel in the exact same size as the game.
Only then the specified TurretOffset in Leptons would visually match.

Btw, welcome back and really nice to see progress on this tool again. Approved!


\Edit
oh wait, I think I've misunderstood you.
The problem is not the scaling and leptons, but the actual size of a single rendered voxel compared to a cell (or leptons which are 256 per cell)
I guess the best way would be to create a line of voxel with 1:1 bounds and then count ingame, how many voxel fit in a cell.
Since cells are 60x30 pixel, i would guess 45 voxel in 1:1 size (no Bounds rescaling) would fit diagonally inside one cell (the unit standing diagonal, thus straight according to the diagonal cell grid).
In other words, a 45x45 voxel flat plane would cover exactly one cell.

The voxel pros here surely know this more exact.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LKO The turret offset is an absolute from the underlying vehicle's origin (0,0,0) along what we call Z but the voxel calls X axis.

The base unit's scale and voxel offset have nothing to do with it, only those belonging to the turret voxel itself matter (for rendering).

Put another way, TurretOffset is a 256-per-tile distance between the unit's origin and turret's origin.

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stucuk
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G-E wrote:
Put another way, TurretOffset is a 256-per-tile distance between the unit's origin and turret's origin.

A Cell/Tile is 256x256. But the question is how many voxels fit in that area.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At a guess I'd say 90...

The voxel scale of 1/12th corresponds to leptons, leptons appear to be half the distance of the RA2 offset distances, and being as the isometric tiles are 60x30, therefore the intermediate X,Y should be 45...

So 45 tile distance, doubled to account for leptons is 90.

Draw a 45x45 voxel as just an outline and place it on a map on a single tile surrounded by other types of tile to clearly see the edge...
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If FA2 is reasonably accurate for unscaled voxels... 47x47 squares to show that 45 is indeed the correct amount of pixel per tile N-S and E-W.

The grid would be handy if you used tile edge boundaries for it instead of some arbitrary 2 dot distance. You would have a better idea of how the unit overlaps it's tile then.


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Lin Kuei Ominae
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

45 voxel, I guess my guess was right Smile
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Graion Dilach
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FA2 isn't accurate.
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Mig Eater
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LKO & I discussing the size of a cell sized vxl, which is 43x43x18.
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stucuk
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Attached is WIP6. TurretOffset is now multiplied by 43/256 .

Banshee wrote:
Ok, I guess it is better to use textures in this case.


Forgot to reply to your comment.

Shaders should never be used instead of a single texture. They should only be used for either dynamic stuff (As in where either you have something thats animated in real time or where you have something like Bumpmapping where its calculated based on the current light directions/etc) or where you have multiple textures where you need to add them in a way you can't do by default.

They are just for giving more control, not for replacing a single static texture.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graion Dilach wrote:
FA2 isn't accurate.

FA2 doesn't scale voxels with their bounds, just a literal dot representation... there's no reason to think WW didn't tell Matze the correct formula?

Although if like I said 45 dots is the edge to edge distance, if voxel dots are handled 1:1 with tile pixels, and FA2 merely applied isometry to the voxel, you should in theory get the same result.

Mig Eater wrote:
LKO & I discussing the size of a cell sized vxl, which is 43x43x18.

All I see there is some assertion that it's 43...

Also a height level is 15 pixels when working on TMPs; so I even if the cell size was 43 voxels per 45 pixels, then how do you get 18 voxels per 15(+1 ground) pixels? There's something wrong in the assertion...


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW the silly bug with the title changing to model.vxl.vxl when you save is still there Smile
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Mig Eater
Defense Minister


Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: Eindhoven

PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I made multiple vxls of various sizes & placed them ingame on a special terrain tile grid, 43x43x18 was the closest match.
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Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyörgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm having a bug with WIP6 - associating it to voxels cause an error on startup. Clicking OK loads the program without any voxels opened. Actual voxels look fine when opened manually though.

Could be Wine being an issue - running a Linux here - but both SHPBuilder both VXLSE works fine.


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stucuk
Geek


Joined: 27 Aug 2002

PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graion Dilach wrote:
I'm having a bug with WIP6 - associating it to voxels cause an error on startup. Clicking OK loads the program without any voxels opened. Actual voxels look fine when opened manually though.

Could be Wine being an issue - running a Linux here - but both SHPBuilder both VXLSE works fine.


It traces to the bit that inserts a HVA frame, which is never called when you open a HVA. Its only called when you manually add a frame or copy one.

Either its a Wine issue or Wine doesn't use the same memory mapping as windows (Thus the location wouldn't match).

I tried opening a hva by supplying the app the full path to it and it loaded it without issue.
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graion Dilach wrote:
I'm having a bug with WIP6 - associating it to voxels cause an error on startup. Clicking OK loads the program without any voxels opened. Actual voxels look fine when opened manually though.

I have no experience with Wine, but maybe it's just a simple mistake like forgotten quotation marks around the parameter file. And when you try to load the voxel from a path with space characters, the program thinks it gets 2 parameters.
e.g.
In windows you also have to write in the registry
\PathToProgram\HVABuilder.exe "%1"
note the "%1"
Otherwise a file from D:\My Voxel\test.vxl would be seen as 2 parameter from the program
D:\My being the first
Voxel\test.vxl the second parameter
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XxpeddyxX
Commander


Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having a really annoying issue with HVA frames. the application won't let me change anything on frames 2 and up on any voxel, new or not.

The only way I can make frame 2+ different from frame 1 is by editting frame 1, copying it, then edditing frame 1 back to normal. If I do it this way the normals of the animation in game come out weird and doens't match the actual voxel.
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E1 Elite
Commander


Joined: 28 May 2013

PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are running the tool in default windowed mode of 800x600 size or less, you may not see the animation
slider fully. Keep the slider on frame 2 or whatever you want and then make changes. It works and saves with
WIP6 properly.

Tips: If you make the grid.png of 2000x2000 pixel size, you can draw radial lines for say 30/45/60 degrees. It
can help in finding angles for rotation.

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XxpeddyxX
Commander


Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the useful response as usual. I've tried different resolutions, as soon as I put the slider into frame 2 or beyond I am no longer able to use HVA position/rotation. The part won't go at all.

Could it be the voxel itself? It was fine at first, now it won't let me do it to any voxel's turrets, I can do it to "body" type voxels but not turrets.
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G-E
General


Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW Guys, I had stucuk fix the turret offset to match the game, I don't know if the bug you're describing exists peddy, but figure someone here will find it handy...

http://www.ppmforums.com/download.php?id=59431
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E1 Elite
Commander


Joined: 28 May 2013

PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the turret has its own HVA file, you open the turret's voxel (not the main unit's voxel) and then change it.
For animation, you make main unit with sections.

@G-E: Not authorized to download from your link, is it private?

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