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OmegaBolt
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Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Location: York, England

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:43 am    Post subject:   OpenRA Blog Reply with quote

I decided to make this topic on my progress modding OpenRA. I mainly started a few days ago adding RA2 structures. It seems pretty simple, with help from their IRC on what traits do etc if they don't make sense to me from existing documentation, and maybe this will give you the inclination to start modding it too.

So far I've just been adding Allied buildings. The tile size is completely adjustable with a TileSize tag in mod.yaml, allowing it to support TS, RA2 or an original game of your own.



I just added the Ore Purifier (there is no purification logic yet though as far as I know), and as you can see the graphics offsets are off because OpenRA centres SHPs from the centre pixel while TS/RA2 start the top of the first cell there.



But you can edit the offset very easily in the structures sequence yaml. OpenRA mods have their art code separated into multiple yamls but you can define what yamls are read and could organise it however you want.



That is the 'rules' code. You can see here there's not many lines because OpenRA allows you to inherit most of it from templates...



And you can remove and add applicable tags.

I based this mod on the TS mod that is in the works, so that's why there is lots of TS stuff.

Don't know exactly what to do with this topic but thought it might be a good way to make some activity. I'll just post stuff here sometimes.
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Aro
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am really excited to mod OpenRA. I think that is where Evolution will get it's rebirth. Very Happy
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Orac
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are the coolest dude.

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Bu7loos
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Err I know this a rather un-measured question but what is the difference between open Ra and ARES from YR ? in general ?
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OmegaBolt
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OpenRA is an entirely new open source engine originally designed to remake RA1, then did TD and D2k and is now supporting isometric tiles as well.
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Bu7loos
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I can do what ever I want like adding new kinds of logic if I understand you correctly ?
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Palkia323
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Joined: 10 May 2008

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bu7loos: You can absolutely do that!
The devs hangout on #openra at irc.freenode.net so discussion is much easier/faster there (if you are interested).
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OmegaBolt
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could also do that for Ares. #Tongue
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Graion Dilach
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Joined: 22 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was thinking about reimplementing AttachEffect into OpenRA a year ago. Then I went to their site, checked the code... and didn't found the actual code running.

Even C51 (C variant made for the 8051 family microcontrollers) with it's low-level shizzle is more developer-friendly than OpenRA code.
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Dutchygamer
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OpenRA keeps looking more interesting the further it comes. I approve of that fact.
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Chronosfera
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What are the values for the tile size you use in mod.yam for RA2 size? Do you know if the tiles affect anything (pathfinding, etc.) other than graphics?

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OmegaBolt
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TileSize: 60,30 and TileShape: Diamond

I don't think it particularly affects pathfinding or anything, everything just gets scaled up. I believe the game always alocates 1024 'world units' in length/width to a cell, regardless of its size.
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Reaperrr
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OmegaBolt wrote:

I don't think it particularly affects pathfinding or anything, everything just gets scaled up. I believe the game always alocates 1024 'world units' in length/width to a cell, regardless of its size.

Exactly. Those 'world units' are basically the equivalent to Westwood's 'leptons'.

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Matthias M.
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Joined: 15 Jun 2012
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:12 am    Post subject: Re: OpenRA Blog Reply with quote

OmegaBolt wrote:
I just added the Ore Purifier (there is no purification logic yet though as far as I know), and as you can see the graphics offsets are off because OpenRA centres SHPs from the centre pixel while TS/RA2 start the top of the first cell there.



But you can edit the offset very easily in the structures sequence yaml.


I think we should resolve this at source code level if it applies to all TS/RA2 graphics so we don't need to workaround the default case. Can you report that at http://bugs.openra.net/new?

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OmegaBolt
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was discussed on the IRC and decided that it wasn't worth doing.
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Matthias M.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graion Dilach wrote:
I was thinking about reimplementing AttachEffect into OpenRA a year ago. Then I went to their site, checked the code... and didn't found the actual code running.


Looking at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-17dB6Cs3o you probably want to use the IDamageModifier and ISpeedModifier interfaces. See https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/wiki/Compiling to get started hacking.

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Glukv48
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Joined: 11 Nov 2012
Location: Russia, Krasnodar.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matthias M. wrote:
Graion Dilach wrote:
I was thinking about reimplementing AttachEffect into OpenRA a year ago. Then I went to their site, checked the code... and didn't found the actual code running.


Looking at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-17dB6Cs3o you probably want to use the IDamageModifier and ISpeedModifier interfaces. See https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/wiki/Compiling to get started hacking.


http://ares-developers.github.io/Ares-docs/new/attacheffect.html

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pchote
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graion Dilach wrote:
I was thinking about reimplementing AttachEffect into OpenRA a year ago.


See #6110.

Graion Dilach wrote:
Then I went to their site, checked the code... and didn't found the actual code running.


https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/tree/bleed/OpenRA.Mods.RA (a direct subfolder of the project root) is a good place to start.
https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/wiki/Traits lists all of the traits that can be applied to an actor and includes (incomplete) documentation on their properties.

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Graion Dilach
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Joined: 22 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, but you misinterpreted my actual quote. I met with that mindrape that time already. Maybe I'm too much into lowlevel but for me code is more than a gazillion of functions which has nothing more than a return statement.

Luckily I could pass my research methodology course with selling solely my Ares efforts as a research. TBH, it looks better from outside, I give you a point of that.
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Matthias M.
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Joined: 15 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 6:43 pm    Post subject: Re: OpenRA Blog Reply with quote

OmegaBolt wrote:
So far I've just been adding Allied buildings.


You may want to send a pull request sometime so collaboration can start on the WIP RA2 mod, too.

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Graion Dilach
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Joined: 22 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RA2 assets aren't freeware. I doubt that would be good regarding Github policies.
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Matthias M.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We don't store the assets on GitHub at all as they are not source code and not freely licensed. Instead it is downloaded in-game (probably isn't going to happen for Red Alert 2) or ripped from the original discs. https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/wiki/Game-Content You should give the game you critize a lot a try: http://www.openra.net/download/ Wink

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pchote
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At this stage it would be better for RA2 (and other mods like rewire) development to be maintained in external repositories.  Having RA2 in-tree would unfairly delay both TS and RA2, due to the increased overhead of our strict code review, ensuring that new features don't bit-rot RA2, and the diversion of our already severely limited resources away from TS.

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Matthias M.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That makes sense, but I worry that the work may get lost especially when not under revision control and we then have to redo from scratch. Setting up the sequences and rules for Tiberian Sun took me a considerable amount of time.

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Graion Dilach
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Joined: 22 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me remind you your own RA1 Volkov in OpenRA last year which turned out of using the APB cameo along with RA2 Romanov's voice. RA2 modding is notorious of using new voices where possible. You sure you want to end up into that mistake again?

Atomic_Noodles already did lots of fixes regarding the blue-edge anti-aliasing issue RA2 is prety much known of so half of those could end up in your GitHub tree within weeks because their presence is justified - yet still fells into grey.
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Matthias M.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Volkov disaster was my fault. I was not aware of the origin of these files as they were submitted to our old http://content.open-ra.org site without proper credit and the quality seemed novice self-made. However, when I learned about it being ripped from elsewhere, they were immediately removed. The new http://resource.openra.net/ also has support for reporting violations and choosing proper licenses to avoid this in the future.

The sprite fixes we ship are indeed a legal problem as they still fall under the original EULA and are regularly copyrighted. In theory they are not allowed to be modified and redistributed. I am also not very happy about it, but as EA has not sued the binary/sprite patchers from the CnCNet community, we can probably assume fair use. Well, for the Freeware titles at least. Also you can't play the game with just those few fixed SHPs. However, if someone wants to make a commercial game using the freely licensed OpenRA engine, I strongly suggest to remove all those bits.

We also follow the Rewire project as this is an opportunity to resolve those issues like http://wiki.openttd.org/OpenGFX did in an elegant manner.

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Graion Dilach
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Joined: 22 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, an OpenGFX/OpenSFX/OpenMSX alike project for RA2 would be the one you need. Not the original assets imo.

Okay, OpenSFX could simply get through with reusing previous WW sounds and only unit responses would need a redo.

I wouldn't be against a RA2 WIP mod of OpenRA but I pretty much know what's happening around RA2 modding better than you, so I know what dangers a RA2 mod would contain, let's put it this way. #Tongue
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Gangster
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Joined: 11 Jun 2004
Location: Moscow, Russia

PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RA2 assets aren't freeware.
I suggest to speak with a man about his creations.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/58357192/ra2buildings.png

at

http://ppmsite.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=36821&start=50

however tomsons won't be able to complete package all by himself. he need at least a help of unwraper and textureer from what I know
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Regulus
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Location: The Lone Star State

PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know here in the U.S. simply copying the image of a product is considered copyright infringement. I imagine EA won't care since it won't be for profit, but even using fan made meshes/textures/etc. can warrant a cease and desist from lawhounds if EA suddenly changed its laissez-faire policy.
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Glukv48
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Joined: 11 Nov 2012
Location: Russia, Krasnodar.

PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about this method:
1. The installer OpenRA, takes here installer RA2\YR http://xwis.net/downloads
2. Decompresses it using 7-zip (can be integrated code 7-zip, into the installer OpenRA).

We got all the right MIX files...

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OmegaBolt
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It might be all well and good mods linking people to that release but for OpenRA I don't think it'd be quite as forgivable. You might as well have OpenRA download a torrent from the Pirate Bay in that case.
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Matthias M.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw http://xwis.net/downloads/ already. Indeed they ship all the assets we need. However I am not sure about the legal status of those repackages and I doubt we are allowed to reuse them even steal their bandwidth via ingame download without asking. It also looks quite unprofessional with webdesign that did not get much love plus they made sure you need a serial key to get into multiplayer and hacked single-player away to avoid a decrease in sales.

While http://ppmsite.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=513828#513828 looks awesome, they seem to be extremely similiar to the original sprites so that kinda still counts as a copy. Also we don't have much use for 3D models at the moment. A Rewire like project for RA2 would be the best solution I guess.

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DonutArnold
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Location: Finland

PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
While http://ppmsite.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=513828#513828 looks awesome, they seem to be extremely similiar to the original sprites so that kinda still counts as a copy. Also we don't have much use for 3D models at the moment. A Rewire like project for RA2 would be the best solution I guess.


Well since making a RA2 mod or totally recreating same assets by an community artist for OpenRA would cause legal issues, then Gangster's Red Alert II project or similar (new project) would be more suitable at this point (but currently RAII is inactive and I doubt that Gangster would continue it anytime).

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Gangster
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am currently designing RAII as new IP for Openra.  but not before I learn engine with releasing RW mod.
And I suggest support Speeder as he thinks about Open Omega or what ever he names it. And he have over 9000 custom content already. But lacking of vanilla yr mad-tech logic or advances like attach effect...
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shah302
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Joined: 22 Oct 2014

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

documentation, and maybe this will give you the inclination to start modding it too.

So far I've just been adding Allied buildings. The tile size is completely adjustable with a TileSize tag in mod.yaml, allowing it to support TS, RA2 or an original game of your own.

Last edited by shah302 on Tue Nov 11, 2014 5:56 am; edited 2 times in total

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Matthias M.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have some good news regarding developer documentation. The modding https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/wiki/Traits as well as https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/wiki/New-Lua-API has been improved already. There are also several new tutorials created by OpenRA modders for other people interested in working with the engine especially from the mind behind http://www.moddb.com/mods/openra-crossfire just recently.

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pchote
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our next release should include preliminary support for terrain heightmaps, which was the biggest missing feature for TS/RA2 support.  Here's a screenshot from one of my (not yet merged) development branches:


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DonutArnold
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is wonderful news!

What are you still missing from TS and RA2 features?

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pchote
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's still a bunch of work to go in making the various bits of game logic all understand terrain height (things like making aircraft / missiles adjust their height to remain above the terrain, preventing buildings from being placed on slopes, etc).

The next biggest feature will be rewriting the pathfinding and movement code to support bridges/tunnels/jumpjets/underground movement.  This will be a huge amount of unpleasant work, so we may end up shipping early versions of the TS mod without these features.

The game renderer will also need a bunch of changes in order to support the z-data baked into the tmp files and buildngz.shp, lighting effects, stealth, sonic weapons, etc.

Finally, traits will need to be written to implement TS-specific game logic for things like gates, building upgrades, carryalls, firestorm walls, weed harvesting, etc.  RA2 will be even worse, with all of its crazy actor logics.

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OmegaBolt
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks awesome. I need to get back to this when I have time.
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Gangster
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, fellows.
Long time no see.
Can't resist to not say how do I like OpenRa progress of re-creating one of major TS feature - "2,5D terrain". Good job folks. I am just can't wait for returning back to modding, but sadly I can't afford myself to spare time on it. At least now.

However I have a question.

If you remember. Last time I was moding ORA - I was experementing with tile size equaling a double of RA2 ones. Back than it caused some techincal issues for future development, as I realised, there is now way to create a proper working TMP with size different of TS or RA. So terrain artwork in PNG did the job for flat tiles.



Will I be able to create a proper working heights, considering I am using a custiom sized PNG tiles? How Z-data should be made in my case?
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Lin Kuei Ominae
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like a new TMP editor is necessary. All currently available ones are complete crap anyway.
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Bittah Commander
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Provided it can be made possible to make a single unit occupy multiple cells, a solution could be to just stick with the TS or RA2 cell-size, but making structures occupy twice as many cells.
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Lin Kuei Ominae
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

true.
Beside the problems to get this done right (main being pathfinding), bigger "unit foundations" would be indeed the best solution:
a) you can finally have a more realistic relative scale of one unit to another, with big tanks being not only visually big, but also occupying more space.
b) big units not overlapping each other anymore when they stand next to each other
c) new tactics and mapping possibilities, like small and big bridges limiting the units that can pass them to a certain unit size
d) weapons would now also hit a unit depending on the their accuracy. An inaccurate artillery would surely have it easier to hit a multiple cell occupying tank than a tiny infantry.
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Reaperrr
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
Looks like a new TMP editor is necessary. All currently available ones are complete crap anyway.

I don't know whether it will be possible to set TMP-specific things like height and extra images via yaml, but in any case OpenRA already supports using SHPs for terrain tiles, so for flat tiles you don't need any TMP editor at all.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The high resolution buildings are seriously gorgeous!
The voxels in the rewire update thread are also really impressive.  Are they hand drawn, or converted models?

If you want high-resolution and performant vehicle models, then it would actually be quite straightforward for us to add 3D model support to OpenRA.  Our voxel parser converts the voxel data into a model (with some special properties) at load time, and so all we would need to do is define an alternative format that gives the engine the polygon and texture data in the format it expects directly.  These would be limited to relatively simple/low complexity models, so I wouldn't recommend it for infantry or buildings.

The properties of this (so far theoretical) model format would be:
- The same animation setup as voxels, using named sections/limbs and an external hva.
- A single embedded texture (say 256x256 or 512x512 px) that is rendered using one of the in-game palettes.
- An embedded normal map matching the color texture, using the same index/direction assignments as the ra2 (format 4) voxels.

The only tricky part would be writing a converter to generate these files, but it may be possible to reuse parts of an existing 3d -> voxel converter if someone wanted to take on that challenge.

As for the terrain z-data: I haven't implemented support for that yet, but it will eventually be parsed out of the tmp(ts) tiles.  We could probably knock together a (collection of)png -> tmp converter when the time comes.

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Graion Dilach
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Location: Iszkaszentgyörgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd guess handdrawn - either handdrawn or refined on hand. Pure conversions always have texture pixelization and quantization errors.
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Matthias M.
Jumpjet Infantry


Joined: 15 Jun 2012
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just found https://github.com/Phrohdoh/oramod-ra2 where a Red Alert 2 mod is currently being developed outside the main OpenRA repository, but still in a collaborative effort.

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OmegaBolt
President


Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Location: York, England

PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recently just put up my first pull request onto the OpenRA git, which means that they can pull the code into the mod if they want to. This was simply me adding the upgrades back into Dune 2000 as well as a few other minor changes.

Hopefully they'll be working on getting Dune as close to the original as possible and I'll try helping since I already did my own mod with most of this done.

So first to add Dune 2000 style upgrades, where you build the upgrade and once complete it automatically takes affect, I first add another production queue. Production queues are on the "player" actor, which seems to feed certain things to and from the player. I also need to add the suitable code to the sidebar so I get a nice new tab...



I shifted all the other tabs down so it goes Buildings, Upgrades then Infantry etc etc down the side. You need to define the graphics themselves in chrome.yaml (though I don't think the yamls are really hardcoded like rules.ini, art.ini etc so you could probably put them pretty much anywhere.

Next I need the Con Yard to use this new production queue, so I simply add it to the list of queues. Unlike C&C there doesn't seem to be any set TechnoTypes, simply all actors can do anything and acquire their characteristics from traits. So here I use MoveIntoWorld: false, and Exit:, so when it produces the upgrade it gets spawned outside the map instantly and simply lets me used it's prerequisites.



This of course could also be used to give other effects.

Finally here's the upgrade code itself...



RaceImages is an interesting way of defining faction specific art for structures that are otherwise identical between factions. In theory this could be used beautifully to recreate Mooman's YR Capture Pack, whereby there were Allied coloured Soviet vehicles incase the Allies captured a Soviet War Factory and vice versa.
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Screw AttachEffect. Can't think of any use for it.

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Holy_Master
Commander


Joined: 21 Jul 2004
Location: Thailand

PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder how flexible of this feature you design.
- Can I change the look of building after upgrade?
- Did it allow me to upgrade for multiply level [upgrade level 1-2-3]?
- Did it also apply to use by unit?
- Can I make player choose only 1 upgrade from many different kind of upgrade on the list?
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Last edited by Holy_Master on Sat Mar 14, 2015 9:56 am; edited 1 time in total

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