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 Forum index » Featured Tools » OS SHP Builder » Suggestions
Rewrite the program from scratch?
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Guest
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 1:30 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

Banshee wrote:
It should require me to write half of the program's code to make it work properly. Definitely, out of my plans for now, I'm sorry.

Really? You suck at programming dude.

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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The program wasn't originally designed by me. I've never liked its design/code, nor agreed with the way it was done. But I didn't bother to rewrite it from scratch it either, because I had other priorities in my life. So, it was convenient for me to be lazy, in this case. Also, it was one of my first experiences on editing a public program.

By the way, the person who designed the program originally has also evolved in terms of software engineering skills and, today, he designs programs in a much better and modern way.

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Parasite03
Cyborg Artillery


Joined: 23 Jul 2013
Location: Russia

PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why don't you rewrite it? You could overhaul the SHp read-write mechanism and the UI is not that big of a deal.
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DarkVen9109 wrote:
What in the name of insanity is this? I FRICKING LOVE THIS LOGICCCC!!!!!!!!!!!!OOOOOOOOHEEAWWWWWWWWWWWYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWW PEW PEW PEW PEW BOOM BOOM BOOM!! Nice I love this!!!! Ferriswheel bomb, Dive bomb. New Logic discovered thanks to Kenosis Very Happy

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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SHP builder is currently a couple of thousands of lines of code. I have less than an year to defend my doctorade thesis proposal. I've barely been able to specify my solution for it, nor code it. So, really, I do have some important things to do in my life than recoding OS SHP Builder.

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Mortecha
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Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pascal, interesting:P I'll take a look. It it's only acouple of thousand lines I'll rewrite it in C#.
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Parasite03
Cyborg Artillery


Joined: 23 Jul 2013
Location: Russia

PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh...

Mortecha, Pascal? he ddin't say anything about Pascal...
But if you could rewrite it, it'd be good. Not just of the looks but also of the program itself. the way the editing works is really messy and a photoshop plugin would not hurt.
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DarkVen9109 wrote:
What in the name of insanity is this? I FRICKING LOVE THIS LOGICCCC!!!!!!!!!!!!OOOOOOOOHEEAWWWWWWWWWWWYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWW PEW PEW PEW PEW BOOM BOOM BOOM!! Nice I love this!!!! Ferriswheel bomb, Dive bomb. New Logic discovered thanks to Kenosis Very Happy

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's written in Delphi, the successor of Pascal Wink
Parasite03 wrote:
the way the editing works is really messy and a photoshop plugin would not hurt.

Do you know what you're talking about?
a) the editing works fine. If you want super advanced editing, then use photoshop for that and copy/paste the image into SHP Builder. SHP Builder is excellent in being efficient and small and not bloated with unnecessary complex drawing stuff.

b) writing such a program is not done in a day.

c) not everyone has photoshop and changing it into a plugin would be bad. Right now SHP Builder works perfect stand-alone and doesn't has any dependencies on other programs or libraries.



I think the whole discussion after that anonymous Guest inappropriate rant about bad programming should be splitted.
It doesn't belong to the initial suggestion.
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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, good suggestion regarding the topic split, LKO.

By the way, the 'anonymous' guest is Josh is 25% Larger.

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Parasite03
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Joined: 23 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't suggest to remake it into a plugin, I suggest to make it as a bonus to the program. By messy I mean:
A - when you drag a copy-pasted thing over an image, whereever it has been temporarily placed gets filled with white
B - the selection boz is hard to select and if not convenient
C - the copy-paste import sometimes makes the image look bad.

Also, I'd suggest to add an option to make a palette with a checkbox to add the invisible color pixel too right in the program.
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DarkVen9109 wrote:
What in the name of insanity is this? I FRICKING LOVE THIS LOGICCCC!!!!!!!!!!!!OOOOOOOOHEEAWWWWWWWWWWWYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWW PEW PEW PEW PEW BOOM BOOM BOOM!! Nice I love this!!!! Ferriswheel bomb, Dive bomb. New Logic discovered thanks to Kenosis Very Happy

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Mortecha
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Joined: 30 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahh, I have had no experience with Delphi before but the syntax isn't difficult, just ugly:p

Also get as many points out on how you think OS SHP Builder can be better and I'll implement them.
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Crimsonum
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Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Location: Fineland

PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Layers would be nice, though I'm not sure how difficult to implement.

Like Parasite mentioned, you can't paste an image or move a selection on a SHP window without it replacing the underlying data. This is a major annoyance compared to modern Paint and Photoshop, where the pasted or moved selection stays as a seperate layer that you can just move around, attaching to the file only after you deselect it.

The colour replacement tool only allows you to select colours one-by-one, which makes the SHP Builder workflow tedious at best. The user should be able to select a group of colours by sliding through them.

Once the aforementioned feature is implemented, the Colour Schemes conversion tool becomes redundant (it was always faulty and limited), so remove it completely.

Those are the major lacks in SHP Builder that came to mind.
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i have made 2 custom very useful color schemes
-remove all greens (when getting green pixel due to antialiase against background)
-remove all colors except remap (for windows, glowing stripes etc)
and i wouldn't like to have them removed.

However, i wouldn't miss if all default schemes are removed. They are all useless imo and downloading the 250 schemes when updating is waste of time and storage space.
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Graion Dilach
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Joined: 22 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I oppose removing the default colorschemes. I am using the one->other and Binarize a LOT. No, really. AS depends on them.

Apollo's schemes are good for fixing the colorbleeding and then the default schemes are good for recoloring it to the gradient I want it to be. (not to mention the lazy way of brightening/darkening via scheming them to Yuri via Apollo's RGB and restore the orig gradient with default scheme) Binarize is also helpful getting shadows fixed during Civ3 conversions if the source frames lost their shadow (happened with me already)
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Mortecha
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Crimsonum - I can see how layers could be useful, but I'll leave that for a later date once the basic program is up and running with working core functionality.

As for copy and pasting and the colour replacement tool, I'll be adding those from the start as they make the modders life easier and more productive.

Not sure what I am going to do with the colour scheme functionality yet, something that is intuitive, usable and is an improvement.
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AnIdea
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should use something like Github for your project, so people can help you with the dev.

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Banshee
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Joined: 15 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://svn.ppmsite.com

Check OS SHP Builder there.

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Mortecha
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnIdea wrote:
You should use something like Github for your project, so people can help you with the dev.


That's exactly what I'll be doing, but it's too early to do that just yet though. The repo's called Octo-Danger-Kitty for the moment as I'm unsure what to call this just yet.

https://github.com/Mortecha/Octo-Danger-Kitty

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Mortecha
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And it shall be called SHPoid, (Shape-oid) It sounds nice. Repo has been renamed too.

https://github.com/Mortecha/SHPoid
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Parasite03
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Joined: 23 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SHPoid sounds odd, Shapeoid (without the -)sounds way better.
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DarkVen9109 wrote:
What in the name of insanity is this? I FRICKING LOVE THIS LOGICCCC!!!!!!!!!!!!OOOOOOOOHEEAWWWWWWWWWWWYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWW PEW PEW PEW PEW BOOM BOOM BOOM!! Nice I love this!!!! Ferriswheel bomb, Dive bomb. New Logic discovered thanks to Kenosis Very Happy

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Mortecha
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wrote (Shape-oid) for pronounciation, and SHPoid for how it's written. It has to contain SHP as that's the file format:)
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Parasite03
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Joined: 23 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But it just looks weird.
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DarkVen9109 wrote:
What in the name of insanity is this? I FRICKING LOVE THIS LOGICCCC!!!!!!!!!!!!OOOOOOOOHEEAWWWWWWWWWWWYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWW PEW PEW PEW PEW BOOM BOOM BOOM!! Nice I love this!!!! Ferriswheel bomb, Dive bomb. New Logic discovered thanks to Kenosis Very Happy

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Graion Dilach
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not really, I like it. It's imaginitive for me.
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Mortecha
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm glad you like it Graion:) It'll grow on you Parasite:p There's a pun in there:P

Here's also the first view of progress so far. I use Photoshop constantly so you can probably start to see some influences coming across. On that note, you should also expect to see shortcuts for all of the major functionalities too at a later stage.

Another notable feature you'll see is that the shps themselves will be tabbed, allowing you to focus on one Shp at a time without the others getting in the way like a swarm of angry visceroids:P

If you know your way around Git and have VS, feel free to clone the repo and have a look for yourself.


SHPoid preview 1.png
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SHPoid preview 1.png



Last edited by Mortecha on Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:39 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Crimsonum
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Joined: 14 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tabs are good, I love tabs.
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Mortecha
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Same here, way more convenient.
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RP
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Joined: 12 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mortecha, notify me when you have a complete implementation of the Format80 compression #Tongue
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crimsonum wrote:
Tabs are good, I love tabs.

not really
i really like to place 2 SHPs next to each other to be able to compare them on a pixel level.
Any visual comparison is much easier when you see both SHPs next to each other and don't have to constantly switch between tabs where only one is visible at a time.

Except the tabs are only used for getting input focus, while the SHPs are still all visible at the same time like now in SHP Builder. Then forget what i just said.
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Parasite03
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Joined: 23 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The necessity of the Banshee's OS SHP Buildir is being runined... But I like the design. BTW you sould fix the last dropdown button in the sidebar.
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DarkVen9109 wrote:
What in the name of insanity is this? I FRICKING LOVE THIS LOGICCCC!!!!!!!!!!!!OOOOOOOOHEEAWWWWWWWWWWWYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWW PEW PEW PEW PEW BOOM BOOM BOOM!! Nice I love this!!!! Ferriswheel bomb, Dive bomb. New Logic discovered thanks to Kenosis Very Happy

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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OS SHP Builder is not the only way to edit SHP files. It is indeed one of the most convenient ways, but no C&C modder is forced to use it.

Anyway, I hope SHPoid becomes a useful tool. At this moment, it is early to say so, but it has potential.

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hmn
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

>2 SHPs next to each other

Well LKO, you could open 2 instances of SHPod and put them side by side.

Or the program could make it an option to have 2 tabs side by side. hmn

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Parasite03
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why would you do that? Tabs is the most convenient way to do that of 3...
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DarkVen9109 wrote:
What in the name of insanity is this? I FRICKING LOVE THIS LOGICCCC!!!!!!!!!!!!OOOOOOOOHEEAWWWWWWWWWWWYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWW PEW PEW PEW PEW BOOM BOOM BOOM!! Nice I love this!!!! Ferriswheel bomb, Dive bomb. New Logic discovered thanks to Kenosis Very Happy

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Matthias M.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Parasite03 wrote:
a photoshop plugin would not hurt.


With this being rewritten in C# I could imagine a http://www.getpaint.net/ plugin. That would be awesome.

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Parasite03
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paint.net? Totally support that. My main image editing tool since Photoshop takes too much time to load and is a very performance heavy program while Paint.net allows to quickly edit images.
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What in the name of insanity is this? I FRICKING LOVE THIS LOGICCCC!!!!!!!!!!!!OOOOOOOOHEEAWWWWWWWWWWWYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWW PEW PEW PEW PEW BOOM BOOM BOOM!! Nice I love this!!!! Ferriswheel bomb, Dive bomb. New Logic discovered thanks to Kenosis Very Happy

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Mortecha
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Lin Kuei Ominae - I kind of know what your getting at. I am assuming that you are comparing two different shps from your explanation, or two different frames of the same SHP still not sure which you mean exactly. Do you do it to compare sizes of infantry and the like, textures and colorations?.

Having two tabs side by side could definitely be an option though.

@Parasite - I think that necessity is being used in the wrong context here. I guess inevitable progression. And that is not the purpose of this tool.

@Banshee - Thanks for the kind words:) I hope so too.

@Matthias M. - I havn't looked into the actual paint functionality just yet as I am focusing on architecture, the SHP format IO and the Interface for the moment. Could be a possibility though.

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Orac
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking pretty good!

I like to put two different shp windows next to each other so that I can eyeball their scale and colours to make sure they match.  I think that's the same process LKO is talking about.

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Zero18
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good, though I suggest that you make it layer, like paint.net and other programs.

When I'm editing images, I usually have old layer and new layer on top so I can compare and see if it is improvement or not.
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mortecha wrote:
@Lin Kuei Ominae - I kind of know what your getting at. I am assuming that you are comparing two different shps from your explanation, or two different frames of the same SHP still not sure which you mean exactly. Do you do it to compare sizes of infantry and the like, textures and colorations?.

Having two tabs side by side could definitely be an option though.

Orac wrote:
I like to put two different shp windows next to each other so that I can eyeball their scale and colours to make sure they match.  I think that's the same process LKO is talking about.

correct.

I also copy frames from one to the other and do tiny pixel corrections like removing green pixel which you get when the 3d-model is still sometimes antialiased against a green background.

For the comparison of scale and color like Orac said, i also resize the individual inner SHP windows, make them smaller and move them very close to each other (like one SHP showing left half, the other SHP the right half, both moved close together to compare them easily at the center line)

I also use the color picker tool on one SHP and the pencil on the other to do minor color corrections. With tabs such a thing would be a tedious work, clicking constantly between the tabs
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E1 Elite
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Joined: 28 May 2013

PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could it be undockable tabs into individual windows in the workspace?

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Mortecha
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Joined: 30 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Lin Kuei Ominae - That your describing is an incredibly useful feature. I see it's value.

The problem with OS SHP Builder currently is that while you can change the size of the windows, move them next to eachother and all that, focus is constantly being shifted between them. Also inorder to change frame you have to change them for both individually which is a repeated process.

I am thinking about conducting the comparison within the same tab.

I have no plans to implement layers or undockable tabs. They just add to the scope creep and do not provide much value for the time it would take to implement them.
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Mortecha
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've changed my mind and instead will be writing this in C++ as a challenge to myself as well as a way to improve my coding skills ;P

Also please excuse my lack of activity around here, life has been getting in the way abit lol.
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RP
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Joined: 12 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice going with the C++, what are you going to use to render everything on screen?

For the GUI I'd recommend wxWidgets, it's a very powerful library and also cross-platform.
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Mortecha
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wxWidgets is nice and all but it will take all of the fun out of directly using WINAPI, While I haven't thought about rendering at this stage I'll most likely use the GDI. As for the GUI, I'll be using  default Windows menus and controls.
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RP
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You do know C++ has no GUI elements?
Microsoft removed those parts in Visual Studio 2013 (unless you're living in the past, of course).

wxWidgets takes on the appearance of WINAPI, so that won't be any different. It also supports the GDI.
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Mortecha
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WHAAATTT!! lol Go home RP your drunk:P I'm using Code::Blocks and am calling straight Win32 API functions. It's ofcourse more challenging than using a third party framework like wxWidgets, but also more educational:P I am also aiming to get as close to the bare metal as possible.

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RP
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're*. And no, I am not drunk. Go check it out, they've been removed.
I didn't know you were using Code::Blocks.
Still, if you have no C++ GUI/WINAPI experience, a framework might be a good start.
So far I've seen no noticable difference between WINAPI and wxWidgets, but I make significantly more progress using it.
I take it this tool will be Windows only?
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Mortecha
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll take your points onboard, but I don't foresee any problems that your discussing as the way I have been doing things so far without using a 3rd party framework has been working really well. Perhaps you too will learn a thing or two from what I have been writing:P

If I do however come across any problems down the line then I'll definitely consider it.

At present I am only considering Windows atm, but that's not to say given any demand that the program can't be natively written for another platform down the line, but I doubt that that will be needed.

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Matthias M.
Jumpjet Infantry


Joined: 15 Jun 2012
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was an attempt to create a cross-platform tool at https://github.com/Phrohdoh/OSShpBuilder but it does not look actively developed.

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Blade
Cyborg Commando


Joined: 23 Dec 2003

PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nooo, don't use WinAPI when you have other cross platform options. Even if you only develop with windows as the intended target, you make it much harder for someone to port further down the line. Lots of people use OS X these days and there are plenty of Linux users as well that would appreciate cross platform tools.

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RP
Commander


Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Location: Mapping God Heaven

PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Use wxWidgets! #Tongue
I use the WinAPI only in one or two places IIRC.
Which are the logger for creating a folder 'Logging' and the filesystem for FindNextFile.

Seriously, it will reduce development time and wxWidgets is cross-platform.
_________________


Mental Omega 3.0 Mission creator - Creator of FinalOmega: APYR 3.0 Map Editor

/ppm/'s stupidity

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Blade
Cyborg Commando


Joined: 23 Dec 2003

PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/2fkk4dzw.aspx and slap an #ifdef _MSC_VER #define mkdir _mkdir and just use mkdir() for making directories. _mkdir behaves the same as posix mkdir IIRC, so that would be fairly portable. You can also create and equivalent of FindNextFile using posix dirent, but you need an extra header in MSVC such as provided at http://www.softagalleria.net/dirent.php.

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