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The Best of C&C (Final Round)
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zocom7
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Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Location: USA

PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:05 pm    Post subject:  The Best of C&C (Final Round) Reply with quote

With four C&C games left to choose from, you decide which two goes to the final. I predict RA2 vs Zero Hour eventually by then. This time I have decided to have 3 set-up polls in three threads of 3 different forum sections, meaning the votes will be counted altogether from those three.

A few things to tell you:
1) This bracket is just for fun and I wish EA could have done something better like this, especially for C&C's 20th anniversary. The previous poll bracket was outdated after I noticed what EA and GR.org have done in 2011, so I decided to enhance the bracket. So much for ridiculousness.
2) It was a mistake pairing Renegade-X and Generals 2. Although Generals 2 was cancelled, it was re-lived as a mod for Zero Hour and now possibly a C&C Indie under the Unity3D Engine. Generals 2 was thus given the honorable mention to be in the list and because there was insufficient voting in that pairing, I decided that Renegade-X to move on instead in the bracket.
3) Both C&C4 and TA were in a deadlocked tie, but C&C4 edged better so one of the worst C&C games gets to move on.
4) RA Aftermath gets my extra vote due to another deadlocked tie so that game expansion gets to move on.

Final Round of the Best of C&C bracket is up: http://www.gamereplays.org/community/index.php?showtopic=960382
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Crimsonum
Seth


Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Location: Fineland

PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why not use the forum's poll feature? I.e. like here
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^Rampastein
Rampastring


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Location: Gensokyo

PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:36 pm    Post subject: Re: The best of C&C (Round 1) Reply with quote

zocom7 wrote:
Now that C&C is nearly dead all except for the ones in TA and C&C Online, I guess this is something I think the C&C community should have had some time ago.

The modding community and CnCNet are keeping the classics alive, I actually think the current situation is better than it was a few years ago.
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Speeder
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Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Location: Czechia

PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Now that C&C is nearly dead all except for the ones in TA and C&C Online


So much nonsense in half of a sentence.

This was also already done on a rather wide scale on Official Forums, why would the result be more reliable this time?
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MasterHaosis
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Joined: 01 Nov 2010

PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like and prefer classics over new ones, but generals is made by Westwood. EA just put their trademark there.
So, without Generals, they do not have much chances at all.
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Aro
Alcohol Fueled


Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Location: Birmingham, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:02 am    Post subject: Re: The best of C&C (Round 1) Reply with quote

^Rampastein wrote:
zocom7 wrote:
Now that C&C is nearly dead all except for the ones in TA and C&C Online, I guess this is something I think the C&C community should have had some time ago.

The modding community and CnCNet are keeping the classics alive, I actually think the current situation is better than it was a few years ago.


Agreed. I haven't seen this many people playing classic C&C online since at least 2007.
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Holy_Master
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Joined: 21 Jul 2004
Location: Thailand

PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For some reason i can see Yuri revenge vs Tiberium Wars at the final match. [but personally i prefer TS:FS vs Ra3].

C&c4 vs TA? i'm sure both draw since first match. i mean die both...  Laughing

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zocom7
Soldier


Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Location: USA

PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Round 2 is up and I decided to increase the number of C&C games from 16 to 32: http://www.gamereplays.org/community/index.php?showtopic=959404

The chart in the original post is outdated.
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Zengar_Zombolt
Plasma Trooper


Joined: 30 Apr 2008

PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Won't we all know what it will end up with?

Calling it before looking at any updated list.

TS Vs ZH
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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zengar, his polls are actually posted at GameReplays.org forums only. Zocom has just advertised it here. I do understand that you think that people here may prefer TS and RA2 over other games. I don't know if this is really that true, because there is a difference in modding a game and playing a game. However, GameReplays.org public has another mentality. Considering that his polls are being posted at the Zero Hour forums there, there might be a little bias towards Zero Hour.

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Bittah Commander
Defense Minister


Joined: 21 May 2003
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wonder why DTA wasn't included in the poll when MO and TI were...
Not that it matters, because despite the outcome of the poll (which will eventually indeed probably be Zero Hour or some other 3D C&C), RA1 has more players online than any other game (or mod) in the poll (not that I think it's the best game, considering its balance and gameplay is worse than TD's IMO, which most commonly has 0 players online).
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Graion Dilach
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Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyörgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keep in mind that many ZH mods have more downloads than TS mods yet none of those are present.

The more zocom tries to give this sense, the more it fails to make sense at all.
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^Rampastein
Rampastring


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Location: Gensokyo

PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also think that such a poll is useless and the "best C&C" is determinable by looking at the games' reception and sales numbers as well as the amount of online players. Based on those, my estimate is that RA1 would win, followed by RA2/YR, Generals/ZH, TS/FS (while it sold well, the reception was bad) and C&C3/KW.

Even for such a poll I think it's a very poor idea to put a game directly against another game. Especially when you have for example Tiberian Sun vs Firestorm, they're practically part of the same game. RA2 and YR have more differences but I think they're close enough as well.

And yeah, should've included DTA too #Tongue Despite ModDB watcher counts, DTA has more online players than TI (and somewhat less than MO). However including mods at all is silly because no classic C&C mod is big enough to win against the official games. Maybe a C&C3 or ZH mod could have a chance, I haven't followed their modding scene that actively.
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zocom7
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Joined: 31 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DTA looks more like a C&C mod than a C&C indie.

Trying to make that bracket official in GR would re-acquire some moderators and administrators in GR.org to agree to it and neither of them want it.
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^Rampastein
Rampastring


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zocom7 wrote:
DTA looks more like a C&C mod than a C&C indie.

That's an odd way to look at it. Actually both DTA and TI are stand-alone while MO is not, so if there are "C&C indies" created by the modding community, they should rather be DTA and TI instead of TI and MO.

However both DTA and TI staff call the games themselves "mods" and they are built on top of the TS engine, so I'd consider the only significant "C&C indie" OpenRA.

May I ask you why does DTA look more like a "mod" instead of an "indie", more so than TI or MO?
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zocom7
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Joined: 31 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MO 3.0 is a C&C Indie (because of the Ares format) whereas older versions of it are mods to RA2.

The reason why DTI looks more of a mod than an Indie, because it modifies the engine of Tsun to apply to TD and RA and mix with it. The same goes to OpenRA, where it can be modified to any older C&C game and mix the engine/graphics to other C&C titles.
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Dutchygamer
President


Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finding a C&C game 'the best' is a matter of opinion, of which I can guarantee you will differ per person. Hell, even what the definition of 'best' is is different per person.
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^Rampastein
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Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Location: Gensokyo

PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zocom7 wrote:
MO 3.0 is a C&C Indie (because of the Ares format) whereas older versions of it are mods to RA2.

Just like MO uses Ares, DTA uses Iran's spawner. The same exact spawner that TI (which is what you consider a "C&C indie") uses.

zocom7 wrote:
The reason why DTI looks more of a mod than an Indie, because it modifies the engine of Tsun to apply to TD and RA and mix with it. The same goes to OpenRA, where it can be modified to any older C&C game and mix the engine/graphics to other C&C titles.

I don't get it. So if we didn't follow the TD/RA graphical style (and borrow their graphics) and instead added new shiny buildings and units, you'd consider DTA a "C&C indie"? Btw, DTA has a lot of new and original graphics made for the TD/RA style, including whole new buildings and units. They're not as many as in TI, but they're still there.
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Matthias M.
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Joined: 15 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OpenRA is also often called a "mod" at least by ModDB staff. It is somehow also not really what I understand of an Indie project (which is commercial, but with limited funding budget). Hard to draw the line there I guess. Also since when is being called a "mod" of something downgrading the creator's work? There are lot's of mod projects that generate content that is near AAA quality with development time spent on it that even surpasses that of regular studios.

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^Rampastein
Rampastring


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Location: Gensokyo

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matthias M. wrote:
Also since when is being called a "mod" of something downgrading the creator's work?

I haven't said that it'd be downgrading DTA, it's just that saying that DTA is a mod while TI is an indie makes no sense. They're both TS mods, they're both stand-alone, and they both utilize the same client and spawner. And they both utilize WW assets and have original assets as well. And they're both one of the biggest released classic C&C mod projects. There is no difference between the projects that would make TI more of an indie game than DTA.
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Zengar_Zombolt
Plasma Trooper


Joined: 30 Apr 2008

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Banshee wrote:
Zengar, his polls are actually posted at GameReplays.org forums only. Zocom has just advertised it here. I do understand that you think that people here may prefer TS and RA2 over other games. I don't know if this is really that true, because there is a difference in modding a game and playing a game. However, GameReplays.org public has another mentality. Considering that his polls are being posted at the Zero Hour forums there, there might be a little bias towards Zero Hour.


I know his poll isn't here. I'm not even looking at his poll. THat's the Point of Predicting : D

And As for TS/RA2 over other games, it's not based on here, it's based on all the flame wars I've been in the middle of. No EA GAme pass ZH will make it because the TRU FAHN will never allow it, and the 1's won't because the TRU FAHN is too young to play those. I mean I haven't even looked but I'll guess that TT and RA3U have already gone by the wayside due to shear Fan Wank.

It's a matter of seeing were the thinking ends and the FEELZ begin.
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^Rampastein
Rampastring


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zengar_Zombolt wrote:
I mean I haven't even looked but I'll guess that TT and RA3U have already gone by the wayside due to shear Fan Wank.

Or maybe you should just accept that those games are simply worse than all the earlier games in the series by any non-personal metric, including reviews, sales numbers and fan reception. Especially TT which was the game that pretty much killed official C&C.

As for the first games not being able to win because a lot of fans are too young for them, RA1 right now is overwhelmingly the most popular C&C online game with peaks of hundreds (I'd estimate around 300) of concurrent players each day, and it has been so for years. So it's not really looking like the fans are too old for the first games.

Most likely those players won't visit GameReplays and vote on the poll though.
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Zengar_Zombolt
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Joined: 30 Apr 2008

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^Rampastein wrote:
Zengar_Zombolt wrote:
I mean I haven't even looked but I'll guess that TT and RA3U have already gone by the wayside due to shear Fan Wank.

Or maybe you should just accept that those games are simply worse than all the earlier games in the series by any non-personal metric, including reviews, sales numbers and fan reception. Especially TT which was the game that pretty much killed official C&C.


Does it matter what I say, At all?

Doesn't stop it from being true. All it took was mentioning TT and there is a one side flame war already. I'm not even defending it!
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^Rampastein
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Joined: 11 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zengar_Zombolt wrote:
Doesn't stop it from being true. All it took was mentioning TT and there is a one side flame war already. I'm not even defending it!

I don't see a flame war here. Instead I see some one-sided bitter trolling in the form of blaming C&C fans for disliking the worst entry in the series.
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Zengar_Zombolt
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Joined: 30 Apr 2008

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^Rampastein wrote:
Zengar_Zombolt wrote:
Doesn't stop it from being true. All it took was mentioning TT and there is a one side flame war already. I'm not even defending it!

I don't see a flame war here. Instead I see some one-sided bitter trolling in the form of blaming C&C fans for disliking the worst entry in the series.


No, I predicting a silly polls outcome from years of experience. If you can't accept people having different likes than you, that's your prerogative. But you should not take speculation as trolling.

As for me, I'm out. Waiting for the entiardy of things to get cuts and given a sarcastic title in the crap forum were it belongs.
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zocom7
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Joined: 31 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As what I would have said, this poll is just for fun and not for any seriousness. Besides, it's about to be 20 years of C&C and I have no criticism of how C&C games are made to be played.

The last official poll by EA and GR.org was at 2011 when they missed out Tiberium Alliances in the Top 16 and their grouping in the bracket didn't make so much sense. This is the only time I did make some sense in the bracketing.
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zocom7
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Round 3 is up: http://www.gamereplays.org/community/index.php?showtopic=959729
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zocom7
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Round 4 is up: http://www.gamereplays.org/community/index.php?showtopic=959920
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zocom7
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Round 5 is up: http://www.gamereplays.org/community/index.php?showtopic=960177
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zocom7
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Final Round of the Best of C&C bracket is up: http://www.gamereplays.org/community/index.php?showtopic=960382
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