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 Forum index » Modding Central » Red Alert 2 Editing Forum » Ares (Unofficial Forum)
Ideas & suggestions
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TAK02
Commander


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: Once, it was Damascus.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You mean bases, not maps.
But I'm not sure. It might be more frustrating, but might also make 'sense', for instance when you have several wind traps in close succession, you can't place them in a long line that makes it look like it's a permanently strong gust that somehow doesn't trash your base or send your troops flying like a storm from E:BfD would.
Or when you have buildable ore derricks and you can only have a few at a time atop an 'oil cavern', etc.

Sounds interesting.
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cxtian39
Cyborg Informer


Joined: 11 Feb 2016
Location: United States

PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's like an external upgrade that can only be built near its parent building and check if both of them are full.
Spoiler (click here to read it):
Code:
[PARENT]
ExternalUpgrades=3 ;at most 3 children
ExternalUpgradesRadius=5

[CHILD]
ExternalUpgradeTo=PARENT
ExternalUpgradeLimit=1 ;1 child of this type per parent

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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TAK02 wrote:
You mean bases, not maps.
But I'm not sure. It might be more frustrating, but might also make 'sense', for instance when you have several wind traps in close succession, you can't place them in a long line that makes it look like it's a permanently strong gust that somehow doesn't trash your base or send your troops flying like a storm from E:BfD would.
Or when you have buildable ore derricks and you can only have a few at a time atop an 'oil cavern', etc.

Sounds interesting.

That would be another useful application for it, yes.

cxtian39 wrote:
It's like an external upgrade that can only be built near its parent building and check if both of them are full.
Spoiler (click here to read it):
Code:
[PARENT]
ExternalUpgrades=3 ;at most 3 children
ExternalUpgradesRadius=5

[CHILD]
ExternalUpgradeTo=PARENT
ExternalUpgradeLimit=1 ;1 child of this type per parent

And this, I suppose, another way to express the feature I was proposing, yes.
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chr0nicz420
Rocket Infantry


Joined: 10 Feb 2016

PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I have another suggestion aside from making use of [Easy], [Normal], and [Difficult] sections.

How about separating the Suicide tag and the Explodes plus/or DeathWeapon tag? This is for the Terrorist, Demo Truck, and any other suicide units. Let's say, the Suicide weapon is meant to be fired so they'll unleash the devastating warhead. But if they're killed/destroyed, they shouldn't really meant to fire their very weapon and at the very least, their DeathWeapon should be at least a weaker version of their very weapon. It may be true that it doesn't make sense on Demo Truck but at least it should make sense on Terrorist. Or at least, I want the Terrorist doesn't explode when he's killed but will only explode if he fires his weapon. This is meant to avoid the huge collateral damage when they're killed on their own base.

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Mig Eater
General


Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: Eindhoven

PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cant you just use custom death weapons to stop suicide units from damaging each other?
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chr0nicz420
Rocket Infantry


Joined: 10 Feb 2016

PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Custom Death Weapons?

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4StarGeneral
Commander


Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Constant Flux

PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DeathWeapon doesn't have to be the same as the primary, so you can have one with AffectsAllies=no on the warhead; or simply don't give it Explodes and a DeathWeapon.
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Mig Eater
General


Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: Eindhoven

PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Make the Terrorist's kill itself via the firing anim on the primary weapon instead of using the Suicide tag. Doing this means it can fire it's primary & death weapon simultaneously, then code the primary weapon to only effect Terrorists & a death weapon that doesn't effect Terrorists. Thus Terrorists can still attack & kill other Terrorists but if they are killed before they get to attack they wont damage other Terrorists around them.
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cxtian39
Cyborg Informer


Joined: 11 Feb 2016
Location: United States

PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I made all bullet-like weapons suppress death weapon while all explosive weapons denote death weapon. This way makes much more sense.
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MRMIdAS
Pyro Sniper


Joined: 17 Jul 2008

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is going to be a semi-awkward one I'm assuming.

My mod has spies for all 3 sides, and the rewards are connected, so an Allied spy infiltrating a Yuri battle lab gives the same reward as a Yuri spy infiltrating an Allied battle lab.

This is fine, and works quite well, until you start yoinking conyards, and can build 2 psi-commandos, because of the infantry duplication going on.

SO I propose an expansion to the Infantry Linking system people have been wanting for ages, with an addition or two.

so you have a tag, say "LinkedUnits=" on a unit, this will link this unit with the units listed, obviously the list on the other units should include their linked friends, so on E1 you'd have:

[E1]
LinkedUnits=E2,E3

then

[E2]
LinkedUnits=E1,E3

and

[E3]
LinkedUnits=E1,E2

and linky magic happens.

NOW, say all 3 are infiltration rewards, how to get rid of the pesky multiple icons? that's where some other proposed tags comes in, "LinkPrimary=" and "LinkSecondary=" to give a setup akin to:

[E1]
LinkedUnits=E2,E3
LinkPrimary=Yes

then

[E2]
LinkedUnits=E1,E3
LinkSecondary=Yes

E3 will remain untouched.

This would create a kind of "hierarchy" system, whereby the buildable unit with the higher Link value would be built, and the lower values hidden from the tab.

so yeah, loads of bollocking about for something possibly only I would use, but it can't hurt to ask.
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cxtian39
Cyborg Informer


Joined: 11 Feb 2016
Location: United States

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you solve it like how the unmodded game solves dog duplication?
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MRMIdAS
Pyro Sniper


Joined: 17 Jul 2008

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cxtian39 wrote:
Can you solve it like how the unmodded game solves dog duplication?

Nope, Spy Bonus' override RequiredHouses and ForbiddenHouses.
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TAK02
Commander


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: Once, it was Damascus.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MRMIdAS wrote:
cxtian39 wrote:
Can you solve it like how the unmodded game solves dog duplication?

Nope, Spy Bonus' override RequiredHouses and ForbiddenHouses.

Is it possible Westwood intended for Country-boons to be stolen from Labs? It's far-fetched, but possible. Why else would spy override XYHouses?
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I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done. #Tongue

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MRMIdAS
Pyro Sniper


Joined: 17 Jul 2008

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It overrides everything except Prereqs. that's just how they coded it.

WW were famous for hacky code, so it's not outside the realms of possibility they "just made it work" and left it at that.
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cxtian39
Cyborg Informer


Joined: 11 Feb 2016
Location: United States

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I may be asking too much I want to request SuperAnim2, SuperAnimDamaged2, SuperAnimZAdjust2, SuperAnimYSort2 all the way to SuperAnimFourYSort2 so that when the super weapon reaches certain state the building can play 2 anims with different ZAdjust/YSort values to solve some covering problem.
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TAK02
Commander


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: Once, it was Damascus.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cxtian39 wrote:
I may be asking too much I want to request SuperAnim2, SuperAnimDamaged2, SuperAnimZAdjust2, SuperAnimYSort2 all the way to SuperAnimFourYSort2 so that when the super weapon reaches certain state the building can play 2 anims with different ZAdjust/YSort values to solve some covering problem.

Something similar to the Gunner=?
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I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done. #Tongue

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EliteGoatBoy
Vehicle Driver


Joined: 03 May 2016

PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just wanted to mention a couple of issues and other/things. (Don't hesitate to call me out or call me an idiot for them.)

Radiation
IsRadEruption is not affected by Beam.Color. Tested it multiple times, not sure if other people ever experienced (or if people even use that effect for the Desolator, to begin with)

Mind Control
I will be using the Yuri Clone as a reference for this part.

a) This is similar to the Repair Wrench issue on Stealth Buildings that was fixed a couple of years ago: Mind-Control links between a Mind-Control capable unit and a stealth unit/building is still maintained (by "link" I mean the colored line displayed when clicking on either mind-controlled unit or mind controller).
Assume an enemy Yuri Clone detects and controls one of your stealth-units. Then if that unit goes stealth and you select the enemy Yuri Clone, you will be able to locate that unit through the displayed mind-controlled link. This also works the other way around with Yuri Clone being the stealth unit. (Both Yuri Clone and victim being stealth is not an issue since you cannot select stealth, completely invisible units)

b) Assume Yuri Clone starts with the original [MindControl] weapon where its warhead has MindControl.Permanent defaulting to no. In addition, assume that his EliteWeapon is [MindControlE] where the warhead has MindControl.Permanent=yes
Then if the Yuri Clone had already mind controlled a unit using MindControl, and if that Yuri Clone reaches Elite status while maintaining mind control with his original victim the following occurs: Despite being able to manually (through player input) target other units and mind-control them permanently (using [MindControlE], the unit will not do so on its own through auto-targeting (without player input). That will only happen if the unit that was mind-controlled with the regular [MindControl] is killed. (Since there's no way to severe that mind-control link between them without getting the Yuri Clone killed, which is pointless, or the mind-control victim, which is a waste).

c) The Psychic-Dominator has received a couple of tags that helped further customize its mind-controlling capabilities, while the Permanent Mind-Control on Warheads is quite limited with a single. Some of the dominator tags that could be useful for warheads are Dominator.ControlAnim, Dominator.CapturePermaMindControlled, Dominator.CaptureImmuneToPsionics and Dominator.permanent capture.
(Before anyone gets confused at that last one, it basically means that units change sides and are susceptible to enemy mind-control).

Ore & Gems
Gem Drills. That's pretty much it.

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TAK02
Commander


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: Once, it was Damascus.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Request: RA1's Chrono Vortex if possible for mods that want to remake RA1 for YR, like Paradox Device and It came from Red Alert.

And some flag with def=whatever Ore's ID is for the drills so we can have different TibTrees like DTA, just like EliteGoatBoy suggested.
And more TibTypes, while you're at it. #Tongue
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m7 wrote:
I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done. #Tongue

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Mig Eater
General


Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: Eindhoven

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can make a dummy building that can spawn any type of ore/tib. Which is probably what DTA does...
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EliteGoatBoy
Vehicle Driver


Joined: 03 May 2016

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The building spawning debris doesn't support the growth logic though, doesn't it?

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4StarGeneral
Commander


Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Constant Flux

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've tested it with ludicrous growth speeds and ore does grow from IsMeteor voxel debris-based ore. I just wish there was a way to increase ore amounts spawned from it, because it's pretty insignificant amounts.
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cxtian39
Cyborg Informer


Joined: 11 Feb 2016
Location: United States

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DestroyAnim is still at 100% brightness in a darkened map
UseNormalLight=no can't fix it
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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MRMIdAS wrote:
This is going to be a semi-awkward one I'm assuming.

My mod has spies for all 3 sides, and the rewards are connected, so an Allied spy infiltrating a Yuri battle lab gives the same reward as a Yuri spy infiltrating an Allied battle lab.

This is fine, and works quite well, until you start yoinking conyards, and can build 2 psi-commandos, because of the infantry duplication going on.

SO I propose an expansion to the Infantry Linking system people have been wanting for ages, with an addition or two.

so you have a tag, say "LinkedUnits=" on a unit, this will link this unit with the units listed, obviously the list on the other units should include their linked friends, so on E1 you'd have:

[E1]
LinkedUnits=E2,E3

then

[E2]
LinkedUnits=E1,E3

and

[E3]
LinkedUnits=E1,E2

and linky magic happens.

NOW, say all 3 are infiltration rewards, how to get rid of the pesky multiple icons? that's where some other proposed tags comes in, "LinkPrimary=" and "LinkSecondary=" to give a setup akin to:

[E1]
LinkedUnits=E2,E3
LinkPrimary=Yes

then

[E2]
LinkedUnits=E1,E3
LinkSecondary=Yes

E3 will remain untouched.

This would create a kind of "hierarchy" system, whereby the buildable unit with the higher Link value would be built, and the lower values hidden from the tab.

so yeah, loads of bollocking about for something possibly only I would use, but it can't hurt to ask.


I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at. Would something like NegativePrerequisite.StolenTech=# satisfy your specifications?

I have a related idea, actually: SecretTech groups, in which you get all units of a certain group if the Lab decides for that option upon capture, and not just a single unit.

Perhaps those two concepts could be combined into related tags in principle.
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MRMIdAS
Pyro Sniper


Joined: 17 Jul 2008

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Millennium wrote:
MRMIdAS wrote:
words


I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at. Would something like NegativePrerequisite.StolenTech=# satisfy your specifications?

I have a related idea, actually: SecretTech groups, in which you get all units of a certain group if the Lab decides for that option upon capture, and not just a single unit.

Perhaps those two concepts could be combined into related tags in principle.

Negative Tech Prerequisites probably wouldn't work, needing a Yuri infiltration with an Allied barracks or an allied infiltration with Yuri barracks wouldn't be helped by such a tag.

Yeah, I've suggested tech groups in the past, they lost a feature deathmatch way back when, but they again, would run into infantry duplication bugs, say allied and yuri both give stolen tech 4, then you'd be able to get the same unit by infiltrating allied with allied, or yuri with yuri, instead of the way I described above.
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what_ta_what
Civilian


Joined: 18 Oct 2017

PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there a chance that Vertical=yes on projectile can use building type shps to make a builder type unit.

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TAK02
Commander


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: Once, it was Damascus.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

what_ta_what wrote:
Is there a chance that Vertical=yes on projectile can use building type shps to make a builder type unit.
You mean like in Generals?

I don't think that work-around will work, as projectiles/anims can't spawn BuildingTypes, even if it's the structure's buildup anim. It's just an animation the game plays and, as far as RA2 is concerned, it's just another special explosion.
Not to mention: how to make the game differentiate between the different projectiles and explosions?
That'd mean you'd need a special dozer/builder for each building.
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I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done. #Tongue

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MRMIdAS
Pyro Sniper


Joined: 17 Jul 2008

PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any chance of making buildings subject to a cloak generator or not?

I want a C&C 3 type affair, where stealth generators cloak everything except themselves.
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cxtian39
Cyborg Informer


Joined: 11 Feb 2016
Location: United States

PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cloakable.Allowed=no?
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MRMIdAS
Pyro Sniper


Joined: 17 Jul 2008

PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

there we go, how did I miss that?
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MRMIdAS
Pyro Sniper


Joined: 17 Jul 2008

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure if this counts as a bug or an oversight, but when you infiltrate a building with a spy, it uses his Move voice, rather than his Special Attack voice.

Is there any way to re-enable that?
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4StarGeneral
Commander


Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Constant Flux

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unrelated, but would giving the game a check as to whether an object-type exists to disable a superweapon or remove it from the sidebar be a quick and simple feature? Like it's pointless having Yuri's reveal or Soviet's Spy plane when you own a SpySat; or maybe there's a superweapon to airdrop an MCV for $10000, but now you can build them for $3000 because you built a repair facility. Just a few examples, more quality of life with less icons on the sidebar meaning less scrolling at lower resolutions (or giant lists).
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cxtian39
Cyborg Informer


Joined: 11 Feb 2016
Location: United States

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[SuperWeapon]->SW.NegBuildings= (list of BuildingTypes)
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4StarGeneral
Commander


Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Constant Flux

PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cxtian39 wrote:
[SuperWeapon]->SW.NegBuildings= (list of BuildingTypes)

Wow hah, why could I not find this. Thanks, now I feel dumber than usual.
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NucleiSplitter
Chem Warrior


Joined: 28 Oct 2016
Location: Metro Manila, Philippines

PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alternate Art for SHP/VXL Units? (Various art that can be used, not just Theatrical Art)

For an example:
There will be a new tag called "AlternateArt" which is a list-type tag.

Example #1:
[Soldier]
...
AlternateArt=SoldierWhite,SoldierYellow,Soldier black

Just for realism's sake, many people have skin tones!

Example #2:
[RebelJeep]
...
AlternateArt=RJArt1,RJArt2,RJArt3

A unit with different decal art, for a more, nice micro-detailing touch for all perfectionists, or people just obsessed with details.
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Mig Eater
General


Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: Eindhoven

PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Random artwork for units has been asked for a few times in the past. IIRC it was not pursued because getting such a feature to also work with NoSpawnAlt=, WaterImage= & PassengerTurret= etc would be a nightmare.
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AlexB
Commander


Joined: 31 May 2010
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would. Either you restrict it to "only one of those on a single unit" or you would need to define a matrix of tags and filenames. Some things might work, like passenger turret and water image body voxel.

But as there's only two meaningful voxels (body and turret), modders would find out about the pigeonhole principle pretty quickly.
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G-E
General


Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well that's actually a lot easier to solve, using the AlternateArcticArt method, just look for a specific name or named series of artwork based on a predefined convention. Say mytanktura.vxl mytankturb.vxl...

For more granularity you could separate turret and body art alternate tags, the turret alternate being ignored if Turret=no.

Pretty sure the only real name collisions between similarly named units can be fixed by a modder, and such errors should manifest visually anyway.
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cxtian39
Cyborg Informer


Joined: 11 Feb 2016
Location: United States

PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just curious, the 3 types of technicals in Generals are the same unit with 3 randomized image or they are 3 different units
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TK3600
Medic


Joined: 26 Aug 2017

PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi. I am a modder focused on AI. I would like to request some AI features.I am not asking for all of them, just a few is enough. I know what I am asking may be difficult, but I think it would be well worth it if you can pull any of them off.

1. Allow certain naval unit to target land target, like dreadaught. I have a few hacks. One is to list specific building numbers, but it is hard to randomize and a pain to code. Another is to allow opportunity fire and make them move constantly. That meant players are also affected, and there is no focus fire.

2. Split AISafeDistance into 2, one for regroup in own base, one for gather near enemy base.

3. Allow siege chopper to deploy by AI. Right now the only hack is to decrese its height closer to ground, it looks like a land unit.

4. Allow guard range greater than weapon range. It helps AI defend. Right now if GuardRange is high, tanks just sit there with gun pkinted on enemy.

5. Allow attack on specific enemy in script section.

6. Fix AI infantry shoot building when asked to garrison.

7. Allow multiple transport. Change team hack is buggy.

8. You know when AI start with unit in skirmish? They respond to attack well. Yet there is no similar command in AI script. Behaviour is there, if only I can access it.

9. Allow 2nd support team in Trigger?

10. Fix AI use superweapon to kill subs and dolphins.

11. Add a "stop trying to move when blocked for this long" option in aimd.ini.

12. Ability to code preference where to drop paratrooper and change paratrooper script?

13. Multiple conditions in trigger?

14. Option to make AI respect tech requirement?

15. I am conflicted on this. Is the Threat System used by default like Decoder said, or does it require special building to be used? If not, can it be default?

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AlexB
Commander


Joined: 31 May 2010
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TK3600: That's a long list of questions and requests, and I would need to look up many things before I can even give meaningful answers.
2) There's a similar request, I think. For Stray and RelaxedStray.
3) Was working on that just a few weeks ago, but didn't finish yet.
10) That should have been fixed long ago already?
15) IIRC the AI always behaves as if it has a Thread Rating Node.

cxtian39 wrote:
Just curious, the 3 types of technicals in Generals are the same unit with 3 randomized image or they are 3 different units

It's different units, and one "fake type" used as switch that's replaced when built.
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E1 Elite
Cyborg Commando


Joined: 28 May 2013

PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@TK3600:

1. Naval units to land targetting would be good to get fixed.

2, 3 would also be good to have for YR.

4. Does using area guard instead of just guard make any difference?

5. For SP missions, already make enemy script exists. For MP, you won't
know which enemy spawns at which waypoint. Currently AI can switch
enemy say when the chosen enemy loses. Fixed enemy may not be a
good idea and hunt scripts etc. attack whoever comes in range.

6. Garrison works for AI. Couldn't understand the question.

7. Couldn't understand the question.

8. If AIHateDelays is set to 10 or less in YR, it doesn't even have time to
queue defense teams in the begining, straightaway it will go to producing
attack teams. Though YR has problems with large values in AIHateDelays
and also AI has trouble producing attack teams when allied with the player.

9. Why? It will make teams keep waiting in the base until all teams are ready.
You can have bigger task force.

11. That would be generic, not just for AI.

12. Would be good to have choice on the target selection. What do you
mean by change paratrooper script?

13. If you get multiple conditions, also needed would be to add AND/OR
cases between them and that may impact performance.

14. Currently the condition check itself can have a building to consider as
prereq.

15. As far as I have read, it takes Dumb values by default and when having
TRN it will take values from the default flags. Those are kept almost same, so
it would not make much difference. For effectiveness, the values in 100s are
reduced to smaller values like DumbMyEffectivenessCoefficient=2. And those
relative threat computations already work fine like ThreatAvoidanceCoefficient/
AvoidThreats or in the script structure number low/high threats etc..

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MRMIdAS
Pyro Sniper


Joined: 17 Jul 2008

PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

E1 Elite wrote:
@TK3600:
6. Garrison works for AI. Couldn't understand the question.

Start the AI near a garrisonable building, they'll destroy it instead of garrisoning it.
E1 Elite wrote:

7. Couldn't understand the question.

I do believe he wants to be able to load multiple transports in the same taskforce, my proposed unit linking above, combined with being able to build transports pre-loaded, could allow for dummy units being built by the AI, pre-loaded with whatever you want, and if captured, behave like the original human-buildable version.

E1 Elite wrote:

8. If AIHateDelays is set to 10 or less in YR, it doesn't even have time to
queue defense teams in the begining, straightaway it will go to producing
attack teams. Though YR has problems with large values in AIHateDelays
and also AI has trouble producing attack teams when allied with the player.

Yeah, we need alied CPU players to not be gimped.
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E1 Elite
Cyborg Commando


Joined: 28 May 2013

PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MRMIdAS wrote:
Start the AI near a garrisonable building, they'll destroy it instead of garrisoning it.

Something could be preventing garrisoning or the building may be considered
hostile. Question was somewhat opposite here.

MRMIdAS wrote:
I do believe he wants to be able to load multiple transports in the same taskforce, my proposed unit linking above, combined with being able to build transports pre-loaded, could allow for dummy units being built by the AI, pre-loaded with whatever you want, and if captured, behave like the original human-buildable version.

Why more than one in the same taskforce? If more passengers are needed,
rules could be modded for the vehicle to carry more. Ares added InitialPayload
feature with pre-loaded but the passengers still don't belong to the same AI
team as the vehicle.

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MRMIdAS
Pyro Sniper


Joined: 17 Jul 2008

PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

E1 Elite wrote:
MRMIdAS wrote:
Start the AI near a garrisonable building, they'll destroy it instead of garrisoning it.

Something could be preventing garrisoning or the building may be considered
hostile. Question was somewhat opposite here.

Yeah, they probably are considering it hostile, but still, it's annoying when the AI seems to want to deliberately sabotage itself.

E1 Elite wrote:

MRMIdAS wrote:
I do believe he wants to be able to load multiple transports in the same taskforce, my proposed unit linking above, combined with being able to build transports pre-loaded, could allow for dummy units being built by the AI, pre-loaded with whatever you want, and if captured, behave like the original human-buildable version.

Why more than one in the same taskforce? If more passengers are needed,
rules could be modded for the vehicle to carry more. Ares added InitialPayload
feature with pre-loaded but the passengers still don't belong to the same AI
team as the vehicle.


No, but say you want a group of battle fortresses, you can't load them all unless you make multiple teams of 1 fortress, load them, then dissolve the taskforce, and have another takforce recruit said fortresses, or say something has a bit of defense, and you need, say, 3 Nighthawks to make sure your engineers get there, can't be done.

So yeah, making AI teams with multiple, pre-loaded, transports is probably the way to go, IF the logic is expanded to include the passengers once deployed.
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TK3600
Medic


Joined: 26 Aug 2017

PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlexB wrote:
TK3600: That's a long list of questions and requests, and I would need to look up many things before I can even give meaningful answers.
2) There's a similar request, I think. For Stray and RelaxedStray.
3) Was working on that just a few weeks ago, but didn't finish yet.
10) That should have been fixed long ago already?
15) IIRC the AI always behaves as if it has a Thread Rating Node.

cxtian39 wrote:
Just curious, the 3 types of technicals in Generals are the same unit with 3 randomized image or they are 3 different units

It's different units, and one "fake type" used as switch that's replaced when built.

2) Can you elaborate for Stray and RelaxedStray?
15) Not that I do not believe you, but I have seen multiple active community member telling conflicting information. Decoder's guide seemed wrong on AI target higher threat rating instead of damage effectiveness from my testing. I think we really need to get this question answered once and for all.

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TK3600
Medic


Joined: 26 Aug 2017

PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

E1 Elite wrote:
@TK3600:

1. Naval units to land targetting would be good to get fixed.

2, 3 would also be good to have for YR.

4. Does using area guard instead of just guard make any difference?

5. For SP missions, already make enemy script exists. For MP, you won't
know which enemy spawns at which waypoint. Currently AI can switch
enemy say when the chosen enemy loses. Fixed enemy may not be a
good idea and hunt scripts etc. attack whoever comes in range.

6. Garrison works for AI. Couldn't understand the question.

7. Couldn't understand the question.

8. If AIHateDelays is set to 10 or less in YR, it doesn't even have time to
queue defense teams in the begining, straightaway it will go to producing
attack teams. Though YR has problems with large values in AIHateDelays
and also AI has trouble producing attack teams when allied with the player.

9. Why? It will make teams keep waiting in the base until all teams are ready.
You can have bigger task force.

11. That would be generic, not just for AI.

12. Would be good to have choice on the target selection. What do you
mean by change paratrooper script?

13. If you get multiple conditions, also needed would be to add AND/OR
cases between them and that may impact performance.

14. Currently the condition check itself can have a building to consider as
prereq.

15. As far as I have read, it takes Dumb values by default and when having
TRN it will take values from the default flags. Those are kept almost same, so
it would not make much difference. For effectiveness, the values in 100s are
reduced to smaller values like DumbMyEffectivenessCoefficient=2. And those
relative threat computations already work fine like ThreatAvoidanceCoefficient/
AvoidThreats or in the script structure number low/high threats etc..


4. There is a "DefaultToGuardArea" tag, no "DefaultToAreaGuard" tag for AI. I tried giving it a large range "VirtualScanner" but it refuse to de-acquire target when moved out of way. And when outside weapon range sometimes AI just sit there instead of move and go after targets. The intention is to let idle units in base attack intruders.

5. I mean like targeting "Dreadnought", specific units. Such script already exist for structures.

6. Like others said, AI subotage itself by shooting nearby garrison structure. It seemed random, sometimes they go in.

7. Like others said, allow multiple transport in one task force. When having 2 AI cannot load units. Works well for things like "6 apocalypse tanks and 3 transport". If I can only use 1 transport I can only send in 2 apocalypse tanks, which barely do any damage.

8. I think I figured out a hack. If I give them no script, they will respond just like starting units in skirmish.

9. OK, if I want to send in "4 dreadnought, 6 submarine, 2 sea scorpion" in 1 taskforces, the submarine and AA ships will also try to attack land structures. My intentions is to let AI chain build 3 taskforce with 3 different scripts. 4 dreadnought to strike on structure, submarine to engage naval units, and AA ships guard around dreadnought for air strikes.

11. I have yet to encounter stuck in regroup as a human. It tend to happen when AI regroup on bridges. If I set stray too large, they will to regroup properly for chronosphere and iron curtain.

12. To code where to send paratrooper by AI just like superweapon targeting. When I say change paratrooper script I mean when AI paratrooper does when landed. For example, I want GI to deploy instead of just stand there. I want them to retaliate against units when fired on, instead of insist on shooting the building. To change their script like any other AI taskforce.

13. Yeah. But this is 2018, I think it would be fine. Paradox's GSG games have a complex series of such trigger. The only thing matters is whether it is too much work for Alex, which I will leave it to his decision. I am only making a suggestion.

14. Ever seen AI build mirage tank without battle lab? The point is if AI respect tech requirement, it frees up the condition to code for other stuff, like "build mirage tanks when enemy build apocalypse tanks and you have battle lab". Right now I can only choose between "have battle lab" and "enemy have apocalypse tanks". Either make AI cheat obviously or make it dumb. I prefer neither, if possible.

15. I read conflicting information. I am just asking for a clearification. For example, you and Alex had different claim.

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TK3600
Medic


Joined: 26 Aug 2017

PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, Alex. I know I am making a long list. I am not trying to be greedy, I just want to list things that can be fixed should you have spare effort and decide to do something about AI. Sorry!

16. When trying to crush infantry with tanks, AI stucks in juggling between targets.

17. (wild card) Allow triggers to put in place of support team in trigger. This way I can create an empty taskforce then chain activate another trigger to check for 2nd condition. Try this if the 2 condition per trigger option is impossible.

18. When out of ore or has ore refinery destroyed, the miner will become idle forever.

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E1 Elite
Cyborg Commando


Joined: 28 May 2013

PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

4. Area guard can be used with New Mission script action - x=11,11. Same
way just guard can be x=11,5. Guard for limited time is like x=5,4.
https://www.modenc.renegadeprojects.com/ScriptTypes/ScriptActions

8. When no script is given, script is completed and it takes default stance
most likely of guard mode.

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TK3600
Medic


Joined: 26 Aug 2017

PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

11,11 overrides other missions. My intention is to guard base with idle units before they assemble to team.

No script also allows them to repond to atyacks regardless of range.

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E1 Elite
Cyborg Commando


Joined: 28 May 2013

PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TK3600 wrote:
11,11 overrides other missions.

What does that mean?

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