PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:17 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
I agree with AG, no reason you can't make an RPG or different type of game out of this. In essence it's the same thing as different gamemodes or total conversions, and those have been made for years upon years now. Hell, MOBA's got started on an RTS and look how popular that is; So I don't see why you should limit yourself to a strict RTS involving just tanks and planes and such instead of inventing whole new ways to play in this ageing engine. We're very lacking on real mods as it is.
Nor do I see a problem with having money strings above your income sources, if nothing else it helps you see what kind of income you're getting. And damage strings would help show what kind of damage a weapon is doing per cell over the new HUUUGE spread weapons we can achieve if you have falloff, and balance it.
Millennium wrote:
I'm totally going off on a tangent here, but I don't see how MOBAs can be approximated in YR to any greater degree than is already possible through mapping (eg. lanes, pre-placed towers), mainly because of YR's simple UI. DotA2 and LoL, probably the seminal MOBAs, depend on heroes with a load of specific abilities and upgrades and while I totally see how you can make a darn good MOBA out of Generals (has this been attempted yet? Probably has.), I don't see a way to re-create or approximate it in the YR engine.
Edit:
Nevermind. [Base structure]>lots of SWs, Designator=Hero.
Boom. MOBA core system stands.
Doesn't really solve the whole "level up" thing, but that could be done without any fantastic and impossible alterations to YR's engine.
RP wrote:
Millennium wrote:
Doesn't really solve the whole "level up" thing, but that could be done without any fantastic and impossible alterations to YR's engine.
Depends, apply bounty logic to get cash and build dummy structures that hold more SW's.
4StarGeneral wrote:
Level up could easily be solved via unit to unit veterancy, but in the current possibilities:
Level up can occur when you become elite, ElitePrimary becomes a 255 range, muzzleflash fancy AnimToInfantry to the next level hero. Of course leveling always full heals you, but that can be part of the system (Most RPG's function this way anyway).
No one said you can make an exact copy of LoL or DotA, don't know why you'd want to either.
I solved the whole hero and ability thing by having you choose a hero from the first tab, having it build a "teleport" pad w/ Free unit. Then that teleport pad has 1 SW and you can add more via upgrades; The possibilities are endless, it's just that no one has tried to do it before.
Bounty logic is the key element to a moba though, so without it, it's a bit difficult to make an income system unless you make the fodder units drop cash crates via trigger, and that's very messy.
This got wholly off-topic, but I haven't got RA2 installed atm to test Ares. (SORRY!)
Millennium wrote:
4StarGeneral wrote:
Level up could easily be solved via unit to unit veterancy, but in the current possibilities:
Level up can occur when you become elite, ElitePrimary becomes a 255 range, muzzleflash fancy AnimToInfantry to the next level hero. Of course leveling always full heals you, but that can be part of the system (Most RPG's function this way anyway).
This is a great idea. Of course, there is no way to make additional SWs appear upon level-up (the best you could do is prevent SWs from being targetable until the hero is a certain level), so that part would be best simulated by purchaseable upgrades for your base structure. Yes, I agree that Bounty is pretty central for a proper MOBA - Bounty would take the role of Generals' promo-points. But even without Bounty, I think it wouldn't break the game to include resource-gathering in some fashion, using the base structure as refinery. Perhaps invulnerable mooks that gather ore? Or just have a fixed stream of cash via OilDerrick on the base structure. I'm not sure how either of these would make or break game balance, but it doesn't sound fundamentally game-breaking vis-a-vis Bounty. Or "supply mules" that are included in each wave of mooks and that you can capture with your own units and then bring to your base structure to grind them.
Quote:
No one said you can make an exact copy of LoL or DotA, don't know why you'd want to either.
Oh no, I didn't intend to say that - just the core elements of a MOBA. (Damage numbers probably aren't one)
Yes, once the additional veterancy levels problem is solved (which you did), all the core elements are available.
Quote:
I solved the whole hero and ability thing by having you choose a hero from the first tab, having it build a "teleport" pad w/ Free unit. Then that teleport pad has 1 SW and you can add more via upgrades; The possibilities are endless, it's just that no one has tried to do it before.
Any reason why you couldn't chose the hero from the infantry tab with BuildLimit=1 and Prerequisite.Negative on all other heroes, or even via the "Country" menu before a match? Each "country"/hero has its own base structure with a UnitDelivery SW that delivers that hero, auto-fire, targets self and has that hero as map-wide inhibitor, so it wouldn't deliver the hero again until the hero is killed. Delay could be used to simulate the "respawn timer" for the hero.
Quote:
This got wholly off-topic, [...](SORRY!)
Seconded. Smile But interesting nonetheless.
You should really make an actual mod out of your concept.
Ickus wrote:
Wow, always a nice tidbit of information here. Ares is very inspiring. I've been keeping an eye on it and testing when I can. sadly not as often as I'd like to.
I hope to see C&C modding branch out into various game types, not just typical RTS we all love.
I think this may merit a split topic, since don't want to clog Ares testing results with mod/game theory here.
One open ended question is seeing how the AI would handle a set up like above....hrm one way to find out!
Millennium wrote:
I think it's easy enough to code with per-unit AI. If you want to stay close to LoL or DotA2, the AI wouldn't even "build" its taskforces. There is one type of taskforce, spawned all at once, next to your base structure. All you need to do is get them to march off towards your enemy base (since they're not player-controllable), which could be done in YR simply with GuardRange=255.
I agree the AI would have substantial trouble effectively using a hero, though. Effective gameplay would probably be limited to online multiplayer.
Ickus wrote:
Still off topic..apologies
I see thats would be minion spawns an auto-fire SW that churns out non-team units.
Thinking further, can designators graphically fire superweapons from their position or is the projectile origin is it tied to the SW structure? Example. Infantry hero unit that is a designator for a "fire ball" multi-missile attack.
Millennium wrote:
No, unfortunately a projectile would always fire from the structure that has the SW. So it's advisable to use invisible projectiles and claim that it is some invisible form of magical invokation, unless you specifically intend a certain special ability to invoke something from the base structure.
Likewise, there is also no real way to make the designator use any special frames for using special abilities. The Crawl frames can be tweaked to appear as "casting magic" frames, but there is no way to make the designator face the target of a SW when that SW is used.
So, all-in-all, gameplay-wise it's possible to implement a MOBA I think, but graphically, it would be hack-y and suboptimal.
(Of course, given the amount of things that Ares has so far added and altered, I wouldn't put it beyond Alex to eventually add the functionality to allowing units to have SuperWeapons themselves)
4StarGeneral wrote:
Can someone rip this off-topic conversation out of here? I'd like to reply more to it, but I don't want to take up more of an Ares specific thread.
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ARES MOBA/RPG game mode theory
