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Two j00s discussing j00ishness
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G-E
General


Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:09 pm    Post subject:   Two j00s discussing j00ishness
Subject description: This one's for you Banshee ;)
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http://www.veteranstoday.com/2016/03/28/jewish-identity-vs-humanism/

As an addendum/explanation to our side conversation... that the world Jewry is connected by more than a common religion, and it could be well past that as so many of them are secular or non-practicing.
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Banshee
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry buddy, but you are heavily influenced by some anti-zionist media that seems to connect the concepts of the Jewish religion into some crazy zionist lobbies. For me, it is like saying that ISIS represents Islam: in short, it doesn't make any sense at all.

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G-E
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It does make sense if you consider that most every idea evolves from an idea that came before it.

Your view that ISIS is an "Islamic extremist" organization, that is founded on some crazy principles or bastardization of Islam, and the evidence of this is their wanton destruction of all things culturally different (destroying Palmyra), killing people who believe differently (Yazidis, Kurds, even moderate Sunnis), and have barbaric practices (beheadings, crucificion etc)...

Yet we have Saudi Arabia, which openly jails/kills dissenters, with a predilection towards Shia groups, is in the midst of carpet bombing a sovereign neighbour against international law, tortures inmates, beheads more people than any other country, and does it for the most banal of "crimes" like insulting the king.

Could we not say that Wahabism, or from a more secular point of view Saudi-ism, isn't the spiritual predecessor to the ISIS ideology?
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Banshee
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ISIS is not Islam. It may be inspired in some aspects of Islam, but it is an aberration. It's a criminal organization, not a religion.

Saudi Arabia is not Islam either. It is a State with its own set of rules that they claim to be inspired on the Islam, but it does not necessarily match what Islam really is.

Quote:
Could we not say that Wahabism, or from a more secular point of view Saudi-ism, isn't the spiritual predecessor to the ISIS ideology?


ISIS ideology is mainly their desire for power. They may have used Wahabism as a base, which has used Islam as a base, which used Christianism as a base, which used Judaism as a base, which is something completely different.

New ideas are composed of ideas that were previously created. That's how human mind works.

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G-E
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Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok so we're getting closer to agreement then Smile

Saudis don't just follow Wahabism, they export it, they fund extremist Imams all around the world to preach, and convert youths to it. We might argue that their ideology is not in fact Islam, BUT to millions of people IT IS. Millions believe in it, even though it was again a tool deliberately fashioned out of Islam to justify how the Saudi royalty dominate the people.

I will also add that Bahrain and Qatar are no better to their people, and increasingly they have turned to teaching something like Wahabism to maintain their absolute control as well. Still, people obey, they believe, and for many non-Wahabis, it is similar enough to their Islam that they won't denounce it as un-Islamic.

Christian Zionism is a death cult, the "born again" crowd aren't happy waiting for their apocalypse to happen, they are trying to _make_ it happen. In their minds Israel serves a purpose to that end. Israel, the home of the Jews that will be burnt alive if they don't find Jesus in time, must exist as a Jewish state, to fulfill their prophecy.

Jewish Zionism is really no different to Wahabism in scope and purpose. It is an ideology based on many of the principles of the Judaic religions, but also the more contemporary Jewish culture. They export this Zionist world view through their networks of media conglomerates to the entire western world. They influence all western governments, disproportionately as I like to keep repeating. Zionism and Wahabism are not in themselves purely religious ideologies, they are cultural, tribal, structural ideologies.

However, unlike the Saudis, who are total hypocrites, doing drugs, sleeping with whores, not living anything along the lines of what they preach, the Zionist movement started outside of Israel, before they had a country to control. The Zionist crowd may have initially helped create Israel through their influence over England and America, but at the time most of the Jews who went there were not in the slightest interested in changing their world views. The key here is that Zionism is closely linked to American exceptionalism, it grew and festered in America, then did a reverse takeover of Israel.

These days, kids in Saudi Arabia are taught that Shiites are heretics, Christians are dogs, etc. In Israeli schools, kids are taught that Palestinians are vicious, unclean barbarians from the 10th century.

Also, every Israeli citizen has to join the IDF, where they are taught urban warfare, pacification and riot suppression techniques, and taught to hate Palestinians some more. For the first 30yrs of an Israeli's life, it's 100% brainwashing.

How many years do you think it takes for a population that started out moderate to be supplanted by extremists, when the entire younger generations are spoon fed the stuff?
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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
How many years do you think it takes for a population that started out moderate to be supplanted by extremists, when the entire younger generations are spoon fed the stuff?


According to Google, Judaism is, at least, 5776 years old and... so far... extremists did not dominate the world yet. I don't think they will.

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Mortecha
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Joined: 30 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Banshee wrote:
Sorry buddy, but you are heavily influenced by some anti-zionist media that seems to connect the concepts of the Jewish religion into some crazy zionist lobbies. For me, it is like saying that ISIS represents Islam: in short, it doesn't make any sense at all.


I am as much anti-religious as the next person. But I must applaud Banshee for such a logical, sensible and unbiased response:)
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G-E
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Banshee wrote:
According to Google, Judaism is, at least, 5776 years old and... so far... extremists did not dominate the world yet. I don't think they will.

Assuming your premise is correct historically speaking, that they didn't become extremists til lately for whatever reason, that still doesn't negate what I'm talking about: a deliberate and unrelenting attempt to turn the the world Jewry into Zionists. Which is in parallel to Saudis trying to rewrite Islam.

These are fairly new developments, mass media didn't exist 100yrs ago to control, printed newspapers for the common people didn't really exist a few centuries ago. Many elements to the story are recent, like the very state of Israel and the very ideology of Zionism itself. In fact we could argue that a whole plethora of ideologies are basically brand new, between 30-70yrs old, which is a blink of time in the scenario, if Goog is correct.

I would also disagree that extremists aren't dominant, America has been invading countries that were only a threat to the Greater Israel Project, and not to anyone else. Wars of aggression are not the acts of moderate people, coup d'etats are also not as in Ukraine (the architects of that were Jewish too)...
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Banshee
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you misunderstood my premise. I said that in 5776 years of that religion, orthodox/extremists that claims to follow that religion are not the majority of the followers of Judaism.

Anyway, I have the impression that you live near an orthodox neighborhood and have some kind of personal trauma with them.

I live in a neighborhood that has a higher concentration of jews than the rest of my country. I do interact with some of them and few of these people are actually orthodox here. The vast majority claims to be 'traditional' but pretty much looks like secular jews. And most of them are nice people.

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G-E
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's just the thing, I'm not saying the majority are intentionally bad people, many of the bad ones know no other way. What I'm trying to point out is that Zionism has infected all their _leaders_ and _intellectuals_ which then trickles down.

We talk about Trump being a bigoted asshole, and he has thousands of followers just like him at every event, and many saner/nicer people too. Now imagine that Trump and people who like his bigotry were all made education ministers around America, and they supplanted all the government spokespersons that face the media, so that all you heard was a bigoted spin on everything (which would be soooo different than the constant lying they do now eh?)...

Eventually, that kind of behaviour and language becomes acceptable, normal, and in many cases encouraged. No different than the people who went along with Stalin's reign of terror, the people that went along with the Nazi subjugation of "inferior" people, and the people in modern day Israel supporting ethnic cleansing. Humans are very talented at living in denial, and getting used to almost anything.

RT has a story about a Sephardic Rabbi getting flack for supporting the colonization of Palestine, and that's one example of many many.

I once brought up the point in another thread that kids generally support the same politics as their parents, this isn't accidental, because their point of view comes from someone they look up to and trust. It's not some guy across the street yelling things, or some academic in another part of the world who says something is a good idea. Do you understand how much power people in authoritative positions have on the public mentality?
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G-E
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

“Our race is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves.” Menahem Begin, 6th Prime Minister of Israel’s speech to the Knesset (24 June 1982) – Quoted in “Begin and the Beasts” Amnon Kapeliouk, in The New Statesman (25 June 1982)
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Banshee
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does it come from Hitler or something?
http://begincenterdiary.blogspot.com.br/2009/05/correcting-misquotation-reputedly-by.html

This is not jewish at all.

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4StarGeneral
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, if I have my facts straight:

1) Menachem Begin WAS a rebel and Zionist leader who later became Prime Minister, so it would make a bit of sense if he did in fact say it.

2) Amnon Kapeliouk added much to The New Statesman that has no sources at all and according to sources of info thanks to Wikipedia links, etc., was apparently very friendly with Arrafat who even later pulled one of Amnon's publications about himself.

3) The quote itself has 0 sources to back it except for Kapeliouk himself.

Ignoring both that blogspot and Wikipedia, I'd say that quote is largely mislead and to be ignored.



Yes, I was that bored/intrigued.
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G-E
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

4Star accurate or not I looked at it the same way, not sure but seems like he would.

Banshee: the Israeli "experts" regularly lie about their history and policies to the rest of the world, not unlike America does. There's 70yr old false narratives about the holocost, false narratives almost as old regarding the terrorism they perpetuated in the region to incite a war they could win, lies about the illegal colonization of Palestine... but for some reason they will openly admit their leaders are racist assholes?




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G-E
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote





You may remember that speech, where Yahoo admits that Germany tries to expel the Jews (true), then goes on to say the Mufti convinced the Germans to burn them (lie)...

IF you actually research speeches from Rabbis and Israeli cabinet members, you will find they all say really awful things, to their own people. This is why the entire narrative, literally EVERYTHING you know from public sources is tainted, by decades of carefully crafted stories that only promote their agenda. In most cases it's classic misdirection, accusing their enemies of what they are themselves guilty of.

"There is a huge gap between us (Jews) and our enemies, not just in ability but in morality, culture, sanctity of life, and conscience. They are our neighbors here, but it seems as if at a distance of a few hundred meters away, there are people who do not belong to our continent, to our world, but actually belong to a different galaxy." - Moshe Katsav

"I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it." - Ariel Sharon

"Jewish blood and a goy's blood are not the same." - Yitzhak Ginsburg

Here's a fun one, I've been following this story...
https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/israeli-lawmakers-call-genocide-palestinians-gets-thousands-facebook-likes

Anyway, academics are fired for coming out against Israeli occupation all over the western world, it is not anti-anything to rationally criticize cruel and illegal behaviour, except when the school has Jewish donors to please, and the ADL threatening lawsuits they know they can win, courtesy of their dominance of the judiciary.

http://rense.com/general49/comp.htm

Except it's worse that that, there are sane, intelligent people all over that have grown up with these manufactured truths, they refuse to even question it. These peopel then steer the new cultural-Marxism that pressures people who aren't of the same belief to stay silent or face ridicule. Anyone powerful who resists the Jewish-authored narrative is only a lawsuit and smear campaign away from political suicide.

But there are also good Jews who see that this is really nasty stuff, and in the long term bad for Jewish people.... http://www.sun-sentinel.com/florida-jewish-journal/opinion/fl-jjps-jacobs-0210-20160208-story.html
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Volgin
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oi vey this scheister goy found out our plot!!! Hide the dreidels, they might take us to the camps again!


~~

Seriously though, why is this sort of insane rambling tolerated here at PPM? Holocaust denial?

PS, Palestine isn't being colonized. You know what colonization is? The massive rape and extermination of Native cultures in the New World.  Don't ztyping belittle the campaign of rape and murder that the Europeans unleashed on the Americas by comparing it. These things are NOT related.
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G-E
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Holocost denial? The Jews were one of the smallest of the categories that died in WW2... why don't we call the ethnic brown-hair Germans that died "burnt offerings" when 3x more of them died? Or the Gypsies? Or the Slavs?

I agree what the Europeans did to the Americas was horrific, not only the initial invasion killings part of the colonization, but later when they pitted tribe against tribe by selectively supporting and arming them. In many ways it was the same template used in the Middle East since, and the same template used to break up India and Pakistan.

However I don't think you can rationally argue that Palestine isn't being colonized the same way. That requires a special kind of mental gynmastics that only brainwashed westerners can manage.

What do you call those illegal kibbutzes that are paid for by Israel bonds and the government?

What do you call the arbitrary military occupation that doesn't allow free movement, free enterprise, or even universal essential services?

What do you call it when the response for a few home made pipe rockets that land in an empty field is a military incursion that destroys over 300 Palestinian homes, kills over 3000 people (mostly children) and drives another 15000 people into refugee camps in Jordan?

And when all that is said and done, what do you call it when Yahoo says there will never be a Palestinian state, ever?
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Administrative Warning: Administrative Warning: Political Conspirator Detected!The political opinions expressed by this user in this forum are blindly hostile against Israel and whatever he considers to be Zionism or Zionists. Samples of such behavior can be seen here, here and here. His tactics consists on desconstructing what he considers to be the 'official story' blaming "Zionist" media for "lies", but he never has the intention to prove his claims. He tries to use psychological rethorics to provoke others to prove it in his place and only seem to accept "proofs" (a.k.a. factoids) that seems to fit his shaped opinion about the subject. A proper explanation on his tactics with samples can be seen here and here.


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G-E
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/frame_game/2012/09/free_speech_vs_hate_speech_why_is_it_legal_to_insult_muslims_but_not_jews_.html

Quote:
Libertarians, cultural conservatives, and racists have complained about these laws for years. But now the problem has turned global. Islamic governments, angered by an anti-Muslim video that provoked protests and riots in their countries, are demanding to know why insulting the Prophet Mohammed is free speech but vilifying Jews and denying the Holocaust isn’t. And we don’t have a good answer.


https://www.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v2_rul_rule130

Quote:
Geneva Convention IV
Article 49, sixth paragraph, of the 1949 Geneva Convention IV provides: “The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.”
Additional Protocol I
Article 85(4)(a) of the 1977 Additional Protocol I provides that “the transfer by the Occupying Power of parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies” is a grave breach of the Protocol.
ICC Statute
Under Article 8(2)(b)(viii) of the 1998 ICC Statute, “[t]he transfer, directly or indirectly, by the Occupying Power of parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies” constitutes a war crime in international armed conflicts.


Sounds pretty clear to me...
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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

G-E wrote:
Banshee: the Israeli "experts" regularly lie about their history and policies to the rest of the world, not unlike America does. There's 70yr old false narratives about the holocost....


"You may remember that speech, where Yahoo admits that Germany tries to expel the Jews (true), then goes on to say the Mufti convinced the Germans to burn them (lie)... "


So... let me try to understand: they've created concentration camps, forced them into slave labor and used toxic gas to kill... errrr... 6 millions* of jews and other millions of other people who did not had the ideal religion, economic and political ideas... only to.... expel them? But yea, instead of burning them, they've used gas to kill... millions. Look, I do not trust politicians at all and I wouldn't be surprised if this Netanyahu lies like a freak. I don't like this guy either, but he wasn't all that wrong about the treatment that jews and people who did not fit Hitler's ideal society received. At least, not in that sentence.


G-E wrote:
false narratives almost as old regarding the terrorism they perpetuated in the region to incite a war they could win...



G-E wrote:
IF you actually research speeches from Rabbis and Israeli cabinet members, you will find they all say really awful things, to their own people. This is why the entire narrative, literally EVERYTHING you know from public sources is tainted, by decades of carefully crafted stories that only promote their agenda. In most cases it's classic misdirection, accusing their enemies of what they are themselves guilty of.


Look, there are crazy people everywhere, from New York to Jerusalem. Now, I wouldn't be surprised if things are a bit worse in Jerusalem due to the strong religious importance of that city for many people. And yea, there are radicals of any kind (regardless of beliefs) and, if they are violent, they are bad for the society. But you must not generalize. Even in Israel, the vast majority of the people are not made of radicals.


G-E wrote:
lies about the illegal colonization of Palestine...


The matter on Palestine vs Israel is a very complicated one, to be honest. You should not take sides, specially if you do not live there. You can't simply describe or imagine what really happens there if you live too far from it. It's a mix of people with heterogeneous agenda from all sides and you won't understand them by simply reading biased news sources with questionable agenda. I just hope there is some kind of peace in that region.


Quote:
but for some reason they will openly admit their leaders are racist assholes?


Because there are many asshole and racist politicians anywhere in the world, including Israel, in your country and in Brazil (where I live) as well. Actually, the amount of asshole politicians here is absurd... but that's another subject.



* probably much more, not sure.

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G-E
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You don't have to understand the underlying motivations to witness a crime taking place. Just like the witness' agenda doesn't really matter as long as they tell the facts and let other people decide.

I can easily give you a prime example of a major holocost lie, and you said it, 6 million Jews. There was a plaque posted at Auschwitz just after the war, which said 4 million people died there. Around the late 60's, that number was reduced to about 2.5 million, and sometime in the 80's or 90's was reduced to 1.5 million.

Now you don't have to be a math whiz to realize that if the numbers used to reach  the aggregate of 6 million change, the 6 million has to change too, downward in this case. Yet it never does. Also, you can find references to "6 million Jews" in lots of articles and literature BEFORE the war, because 6 million seems to have some symbolic significance. What significance isn't really important, just that it was regularly used as a key number for years relating to all kinds of mundane things.

You also make the common mistake of calling them concentration camps, they were labour camps. A fascist regime operates on the principle of slavery, and conquered slave labour force is always much more acceptable than using your own people. It's simple, Germany badly needed labourers. Does this mean they were treated poorly? You bet. Does this mean they were prisoners? Not always, many of them were paid in special currency that could be exchanged for goods as any German could, but only in the Jewish ghettos. People have trouble with one other aspect, the Poles and many of the Baltic countries are still very right-wing and pro-Nazi today, and THOSE Nazis treated the workers really badly, worse than the Germans did.

I already went into the Zyklon B supplied by American chemical companies that was for de-lousing the train carriages and fumigating the living quarters, so I won't get into that here. The point is that if we can disprove one or more major "facts" in the story, the story starts unraveling.

What you're left with is a bunch of testimony from Jews who hated the Nazis, coerced confessions from low-level Nazis during their trials, and of course the Allied and Communist govts who were happy to go along with it to show how noble they were to defeat them. To this day, the Russians fully support the narrative because it helps obscure the brutality of the holodomor in which 20-35 million Soviet citizens died.

My grandfather saved more than 20 Jewish patients in the hospital he was administrator in when the Hungarian Nazi sympathizers came to deport them. He took a risk but stood up for the oppressed. Just like I am happy to stand up for the oppressed Palestinians. The Israelis are using everything they learned from the Nazis, the Communists, and the British when it comes to political and economic control, on the Palestinians, with the full blessing of the western powers.

It is not complicated to state the obvious, Palestine is being bulldozed to make more and more Jewish-only settlements. The settlers are all hardcore Zionist types because no one moderate would want to live there, and no one kind would want to support displacing indigenous people. Yet this is Israeli policy, and they pay for it. Once a settlement grows to a certain size, they demand a temple, they demand a school, they demand recreational facilities, and pretty soon you have a new city neighbourhood overlooking the Palestinian wasteland below. I urge you to research what really goes on over there, it is an open air prison. There's a movie coming out by Roger Waters soon too.

As far as racism, the Jews are some of the most racist of the bunch. However, the bigger problem isn't individual hatreds, but national and international policies.

Everytime the UN has tried to sanction or condemn Israel in any meaningful way for it's actions, including breaking international law, breaking UN resolutions, etc, the USA vetoes the motion. Instead of abstaining like they should, they directly jump in the way of the bullets for Israel. Even the language adopted by French and British ministers is so tame, all the news reporting is sanitized to the point where you think it's evil Palestinian terrorists ruining a lovely Jewish neighbourhood, which in reality is an illegal settlement that cuts off huge communities of Palestinians from roads and public services.

I should also mention, that according to international law, Geneva convention etc, terrorism is legal in 1 instance only, when you are under the control of an occupying force with greater military power. A citizen's duty is to resist the occupation, by whatever means possible. In this way, the French resistance who terrorized the Nazis in WW2 were justified, even though what they did was genuinely as bad as what Jahbat Al-Nusra has been doing in Syria. The inverse is also true, the occupying force HAS NO RIGHT to "self defense", because it is the aggressor.

Israel has nukes and never signed the non-proliferation treaty, neither has Saudi Arabia, or India, yet we are constantly told how terrible it would be for a country like Iran to have a nuclear weapon. This is despite evidence that suggests only 3 countries (aside from the Soviet Union) on the planet have ever used nukes, America, Israel, Saudi Arabia. And America used theirs first _after_ Japan had surrendered.

Who was the threat again?
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

G-E wrote:
And America used theirs first _after_ Japan had surrendered.


Japan surrendered after the bombs were dropped.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh you, technicalities... Japan had offered to negotiate a surrender for a week or two, but the Americans didn't sit down with them, and even before that Japan had offered a truce which could have ended the war. So yes, Japan for all intents had surrendered, and it wasn't accepted.
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Crimsonum
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G-E wrote:
Oh you, technicalities... Japan had offered to negotiate a surrender for a week or two, but the Americans didn't sit down with them, and even before that Japan had offered a truce which could have ended the war. So yes, Japan for all intents had surrendered, and it wasn't accepted.


Oh please. http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/52502

Why don't you tell us about chem trails and how jet fuel cannot melt steel beams.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You don't have to understand the underlying motivations to witness a crime taking place. Just like the witness' agenda doesn't really matter as long as they tell the facts and let other people decide.


Really? But you have to understand what is going on before doing accusations of any kind of crime and eventually take sides, if you desire to do. If you do that without understanding what's going on, you'll loose all your credibility.


Quote:
I can easily give you a prime example of a major holocost lie, and you said it, 6 million Jews. There was a plaque posted at Auschwitz just after the war, which said 4 million people died there. Around the late 60's, that number was reduced to about 2.5 million, and sometime in the 80's or 90's was reduced to 1.5 million.

Now you don't have to be a math whiz to realize that if the numbers used to reach  the aggregate of 6 million change, the 6 million has to change too, downward in this case. Yet it never does. Also, you can find references to "6 million Jews" in lots of articles and literature BEFORE the war, because 6 million seems to have some symbolic significance. What significance isn't really important, just that it was regularly used as a key number for years relating to all kinds of mundane things.


Do you know how authorities from any civilization get these numbers of millions of people for any kind of event? Do you really think that they count bodies? If you do, you are very naive. They use other techniques to estimate numbers, specially when they do not have access to all the bodies (which is the case). It could have been much more than 6 million people, even if they eventually cut 2.5 million from Auschwitz, which I don't know if it has ever happened. Millions of people died in many other places than Auschwitz, but Auschwitz was worse because it concentrated more people in one single place.



G-E wrote:
You also make the common mistake of calling them concentration camps, they were labour camps. A fascist regime operates on the principle of slavery, and conquered slave labour force is always much more acceptable than using your own people. It's simple, Germany badly needed labourers. Does this mean they were treated poorly? You bet. Does this mean they were prisoners? Not always, many of them were paid in special currency that could be exchanged for goods as any German could, but only in the Jewish ghettos. People have trouble with one other aspect, the Poles and many of the Baltic countries are still very right-wing and pro-Nazi today, and THOSE Nazis treated the workers really badly, worse than the Germans did.


For starters, slave labour is never acceptable under any circumstances. It is a tragedy, a crime against humanity and a complete absurd, what happened in that place. And if it was just slave labour, why would they use gas to kill millions of people? It doesn't make sense at all. If they simply had slaves, it would be better to transfer them into other concentration slavery camp. Do you really believe at this non-sense that you wrote? Of course that it is a concentration camp and I'm pretty sure that if you were one of victims there or someone close to you from your family were one of them, you wouldn't write such lamentable sentences. You seem to have no idea how much suffering places like that spreaded to so many families and how it has awfully afected generations of people everywhere in the world.

And look, back in the days where Brazil had slavery (which was another tragedy, absurd, horror, etc), the slaves in Brazil did receive food (which is something that many of the people in Auschwitz did not had access to) that was usually different than the farmers who 'owned them' used to eat. What you claim to be a 'special currency' is no way different than this. They can't use this 'currency' everywhere. You can't have the freedom to leave these concentration camps whenever you want and you can be physically punished  or sentenced to death if you do things that goes against those who are making you slave. So, honestly, stop with this bullshit that they were paid to work, because no one was there because they desired to be.

In a short note: brazilian farmers did not kill millions of slaves with toxic gas to 'pacify' their slave labor.

To make things even worse, you said that Germany did need that? Are you nuts or what? Stop with that non-sense! Bu hunting these people, they've screwed up their economy. They did not need to do that, for starters. Any decent developed country does not need slaves to develop or to even survive. You don't need to be a genius to know that slavery just increases the financial inequality, increases poverty and harm the society as a whole. And don't go claiming that China is developed because their communist govern used slaves from many areas of their country to feed the economy of 5 or more cities. Visit the interior of China if you dare, to see how people live there, damn it. Developed countries do not need slaves at all.


Quote:
My grandfather saved more than 20 Jewish patients in the hospital he was administrator in when the Hungarian Nazi sympathizers came to deport them. He took a risk but stood up for the oppressed. Just like I am happy to stand up for the oppressed Palestinians. The Israelis are using everything they learned from the Nazis, the Communists, and the British when it comes to political and economic control, on the Palestinians, with the full blessing of the western powers.

It is not complicated to state the obvious, Palestine is being bulldozed to make more and more Jewish-only settlements. The settlers are all hardcore Zionist types because no one moderate would want to live there, and no one kind would want to support displacing indigenous people. Yet this is Israeli policy, and they pay for it. Once a settlement grows to a certain size, they demand a temple, they demand a school, they demand recreational facilities, and pretty soon you have a new city neighbourhood overlooking the Palestinian wasteland below. I urge you to research what really goes on over there, it is an open air prison. There's a movie coming out by Roger Waters soon too.

As far as racism, the Jews are some of the most racist of the bunch. However, the bigger problem isn't individual hatreds, but national and international policies.



It is not that simple to see who is being oppressed by who and what is really going on in that place. I know that Israel is richer and more organized than the community of palestinians there, but if you do not understand the context in a proper way, you'll not be able to understand what is really going on. I'm not denying that there are israelis invading and building communities at territories that belongs to Palestine (according to UN conventions) and I am not defending them either.

However, if you want to take sides and defend so much the so called 'oppressed' palestines, you need to understand the reasoning behind the actions of these people. There is a minority of radicals there who may desire what they consider to be the Great Israel... or whatever they call. But this is really a minority of racists bastards. I believe most of the people there simply wants to survive, including some of these so called 'colonizers'. Also, don't be surprised if you find many arabs among those israelis who are 'colonizing enemy territory'. Those 'colonies' are mainly one of the many tools used in negotiations between Israel and Palestine authorities. Note that I'm not saying if this is a good or a bad tool, nor if I agree or not with its usage as a negotiation tool.

The region itself is very unstable, filled radicals with conflicting agenda, as I said before. While in one side, we have an organized State with its authorities and laws that seems to be tolerated by its population, the other side is a way more chaotic. The Palestinian National Authority does not have the same acceptance among its population as Israel, nor it is as organized as Israel. There are several militias trying to control it, where Fatah and Hamas seems to be the most influentials. This lack of representation and acceptance among its population makes negotiations of any kind way more complicated and opens opportunities from radicals from all factions to cause more havoc, jeopardizing the chances of peace in the region.

Despite that, you cannot compare the situation of Israel and Palestine with what the Nazis did in WW2. It is a completely different thing. If Israel simply desired to expel Palestines from their territory with the USA support, they would already have done it a long time ago. They have a very well armed army that is capable of doing it nowadays. I'm glad that it was not their decision nor their objective at all. Unlike the concentration camps from the Nazis, Israel does not slave palestines and other people, nor prevent them from moving inside and outside their territory. In fact, arab-israelis, which according to Wikipedia* are over 20% of Israel's population, are able to exercise their religion there, vote in Israel elections and have full access to the structure of the State, being able to live a normal life. Of course, there might be prejudice among the people there, which is a pitty, but I don't think it is a generalized problem and it is not endorsed by the State of Israel either. Anyway, as you can see, it is still a very different situation from what the Nazis did with jews, muslims, communists and others.





* It may not be a reliable source.

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G-E
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Banshee wrote:
Really? But you have to understand what is going on before doing accusations of any kind of crime and eventually take sides, if you desire to do. If you do that without understanding what's going on, you'll loose all your credibility.

Except we do understand what's going on, there are plenty of people documenting what's going on, and the Israeli govt even admits most of it. The only question revolves around whether it is "wrong" or "justified", and to that we can apply international law, which clearly defines these acts are wrong. Then to make matters worse, even when the UN and other bodies like HumanRightsWatch or Amnesty International condemn it openly, no sanctions are applied to Israel, and no Israeli is tried in a criminal court for it.

Consider the sanctions applied to Russia. They were applied for "annexing" Crimea, which actually decided it's own fate in a referendum. The international community never sanctioned any other country for declaring independence, but they made an exception this time, because it joined with a geo-political "enemy" instead.

Then we have the Iran sactions, which have even less basis. Iran supports Hezbollah, a movement not unlike the Muslim Brotherhood, except anti-imperialist and anti-Israel. The Brotherhood are a collection of brutal Sunni extremists that are welcomed and supported by Saudis. Hezbollah resisted Israel's war against Lebanon, so using Israel's influence over America, had Hezbollah labeled a terrorist organization. So now "Iran supports terrorist groups" becomes the rallying cry.

Do you understand this is a public smear campaign using economic warfare to punish a country that has done nothing wrong (in both examples)?

Banshee wrote:
Do you know how authorities from any civilization get these numbers of millions of people for any kind of event? Do you really think that they count bodies? If you do, you are very naive. They use other techniques to estimate numbers, specially when they do not have access to all the bodies (which is the case). It could have been much more than 6 million people, even if they eventually cut 2.5 million from Auschwitz, which I don't know if it has ever happened. Millions of people died in many other places than Auschwitz, but Auschwitz was worse because it concentrated more people in one single place.

Misdirection, all I said is the number of dead has changed, in the place where it is generally accepted that most of the Jews died, and yet the generally accepted number of Jewish dead hasn't changed at all.

And we didn't even talk about what is often the major killer in camps, disease! Typhoid ravaged the camps in Poland, as did other diseases, which is why the Nazis needed so much Zyklon B to clean it!

This isn't a clerical error either. The Nazis actually kept fantastic records of the camps, most of it was deliberately destroyed so as not to conflict with the Nuremburg scam. Just as yourself a question, if your goal is to kill these people, why would you tattoo them with unique identifiers?

Banshee wrote:
For starters, slave labour is never acceptable under any circumstances. It is a tragedy, a crime against humanity and a complete absurd, what happened in that place.

I completely agree, I'm not absolving anyone for using slave labour, just pointing out that the narrative of "death camps" is wrong, because they weren't trying to kill them all. The label "concentration camps" is wrong also, because they weren't just interred like the Japanese in America, they actually worked, and many got paid like American prisoners today who make license plates and washing machines. Which is also slavery, which is also illegal... so America is currently guilty of slavery.

Banshee wrote:
To make things even worse, you said that Germany did need that? Are you nuts or what? Stop with that non-sense! Bu hunting these people, they've screwed up their economy. They did not need to do that, for starters. Any decent developed country does not need slaves to develop or to even survive. You don't need to be a genius to know that slavery just increases the financial inequality, increases poverty and harm the society as a whole.

Here you are applying your perspective to their perspective. This is the exact same argument we can level against Trump, he wants to do bad things, that will hurt some aspects of the economy, for his own reasons, which are shared by millions of white men in America.

The Nazis wanted to conquer Europe, to that end they needed slave labour, just like the Roman empire did. They enslaved as they expanded, even the conscription into the army was the exact same tactic, these Germans were not dumb.

Banshee wrote:
It is not that simple to see who is being oppressed by who and what is really going on in that place. I know that Israel is richer and more organized than the community of palestinians there, but if you do not understand the context in a proper way, you'll not be able to understand what is really going on. I'm not denying that there are israelis invading and building communities at territories that belongs to Palestine (according to UN conventions) and I am not defending them either.

What Israel is doing is illegal, and as the occupying power they have no legitimacy over dictating what is justified in the occupied territory. It doesn't matter if the PA is corrupt (which they are) and it doesn't matter if Hamas fires pipe rockets. Israel has no right to be there, and therefore can't claim self-defense, or send in the military to crush the opposition.

Saudi Arabia and Bahrain also send their militaries to crush political demonstrations they label as rebellions within their countires, but the key here is, it is happening on their own territory. So yes, crushing protests is illegal, dehumanizing and torturing political prisoners is illegal too, but they aren't colonizing anyone, which makes it slightly more legal.

Banshee wrote:
The region itself is very unstable, filled radicals with conflicting agenda, as I said before. While in one side, we have an organized State with its authorities and laws that seems to be tolerated by its population, the other side is a way more chaotic. The Palestinian National Authority does not have the same acceptance among its population as Israel, nor it is as organized as Israel.

This is another kind of misdirection. If the Palestinian leadership is incapable of controlling their population, it is because the Palestinian people can't control their own destiny period. If the PA can't stop Israel from invading whenever they feel like it, and can't stop the Israeli harassment of their citizens, and can't stop the illegal blockading of travel, then what good are they?

Why would a Palestinian obey their puppet leadership, which is paid by Israel too? I'm guessing you didn't know that.


Banshee wrote:
Despite that, you cannot compare the situation of Israel and Palestine with what the Nazis did in WW2. It is a completely different thing. If Israel simply desired to expel Palestines from their territory with the USA support, they would already have done it a long time ago. They have a very well armed army that is capable of doing it nowadays. I'm glad that it was not their decision nor their objective at all.

Hahah what? That's exactly their objective! Read your history! when Israel was created, they had to expel 3/4 million families. Since then, they have waged 2 wars to take more land, and have openly admitted they need more farmland. When Israel offered to give occupied land back to Egypt and Jordan, it was with explicitly negotiated deals allowing them full military control over the West Bank and Gaza, and other bits of territory they didn't give back.

You might ask why their neighbours agreed to let Israel keep the land, because their big brother supported them at the international level, and it gave them a way to save face. The alternative was never to get any of the land back. It was rigged from the start.
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RP
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crimsonum wrote:
jet fuel cannot melt steel beams.


That actually is true. Jet fuel cannot melt steel beams.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crimsonum wrote:
G-E wrote:
Oh you, technicalities... Japan had offered to negotiate a surrender for a week or two, but the Americans didn't sit down with them, and even before that Japan had offered a truce which could have ended the war. So yes, Japan for all intents had surrendered, and it wasn't accepted.


Oh please. http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/52502

Why don't you tell us about chem trails and how jet fuel cannot melt steel beams.

I counter you with this:

http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/05/30/the-bomb-didnt-beat-japan-stalin-did/

http://www.stripes.com/news/special-reports/world-war-ii-the-final-chapter/wwii-victory-in-japan/would-japan-have-surrendered-without-the-atomic-bombings-1.360300

I don't know why you're polluting our discussion with chem trails and office fires....
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SMIFFGIG
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G-E wrote:

I don't know why you're polluting our discussion with chem trails and office fires....


'office fires' G-E can you elaborate? I assume you are referencing the September 11 attacks?

@Banshee: I genuinely admire you patience
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's too patient. This thread is beyond a debacle.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This thread is beyond insane. The conspira-tard is strong in this bitch.

Also, "loljews."
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This discussion was supposed to center around the tribal loyalties of Jews around the world, with special emphasis on the relationship between North American Jewry and those living in Israel. The rest came out of a need to clarify positions, and break assumptions.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EXCUSE ME FURRY QUEEN AND EVANB90, STOP SILENCING THE TRUTH that g-e needs to get out of his mother's basement and see the sun and stop thinking the jews are out there running the world.
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Isaac_The_Madd
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't he tell obviously Donald Trump owns the world...or at least acts like he does.

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blubb
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

just wanted to throw this in, in terms of WW 2, the slavs in general definetly got the absolute shortest end of all the sticks.
and nobody did give a shit.
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Banshee
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

G-E wrote:
Except we do understand what's going on, there are plenty of people documenting what's going on, and the Israeli govt even admits most of it. The only question revolves around whether it is "wrong" or "justified", and to that we can apply international law, which clearly defines these acts are wrong. Then to make matters worse, even when the UN and other bodies like HumanRightsWatch or Amnesty International condemn it openly, no sanctions are applied to Israel, and no Israeli is tried in a criminal court for it.


No, you don't know what's going on. You have no clue at all. You trust too much the biased news sources. You don't live there. You don't feel the tension and the emotions from that people. You don't understand their culture and how that population interacts. You don't know how is it to see your home getting a rocket out of nowhere, or suddenly being invaded by terrorists and getting a missile destroying it later not without a phone call saying 'You have 5 minutes to get your family out of your home because we are sending a missile to blow it up. We are sorry'. You don't know the tension of looking at a flying object on the sky and lay down on the floor because you are probably seeing a rocket or the tension of tanks invading your community and shootings happen around you or someone with a bomb blow up out of nowhere in a public place full of people.

You don't care about understand people there. You only see Israel oppressing Palestines. There is much more than that there.... both sides do some kind of oppression with the population there. And these emotions, tension, etc from all sides won't be reported by your sources. If you don't understand how they feel, you have no conditions to understand what's going on and why are these things happening.



Quote:
Consider the sanctions applied to Russia. They were applied for "annexing" Crimea, which actually decided it's own fate in a referendum. The international community never sanctioned any other country for declaring independence, but they made an exception this time, because it joined with a geo-political "enemy" instead.


A referendum done after they expelled the ucranians is a biased referendum. That's why the international community did not take it seriously at all.



Quote:
Then we have the Iran sactions, which have even less basis. Iran supports Hezbollah, a movement not unlike the Muslim Brotherhood, except anti-imperialist and anti-Israel. The Brotherhood are a collection of brutal Sunni extremists that are welcomed and supported by Saudis. Hezbollah resisted Israel's war against Lebanon, so using Israel's influence over America, had Hezbollah labeled a terrorist organization. So now "Iran supports terrorist groups" becomes the rallying cry.


I've never agreed with Iran's sanctions either.



G-E wrote:
Misdirection, all I said is the number of dead has changed, in the place where it is generally accepted that most of the Jews died, and yet the generally accepted number of Jewish dead hasn't changed at all.


And what I said is that the number of deaths were guessed all the time. There were millions of people killed. The exact number nobody will ever know. The bodies aren't there anymore. Different sources will give different numbers. It's like in a street protest here. Police, research institutions and organizers gives completely crazy different numbers for the amount of people who attended it.

Quote:
And we didn't even talk about what is often the major killer in camps, disease! Typhoid ravaged the camps in Poland, as did other diseases, which is why the Nazis needed so much Zyklon B to clean it!

This isn't a clerical error either. The Nazis actually kept fantastic records of the camps, most of it was deliberately destroyed so as not to conflict with the Nuremburg scam. Just as yourself a question, if your goal is to kill these people, why would you tattoo them with unique identifiers?


Really? And these diseases happened because they cared so much about the health of their labor, right? Very effective, heh? The tattoo was just a way to keep control of things. No big deal.


G-E wrote:
I completely agree, I'm not absolving anyone for using slave labour, just pointing out that the narrative of "death camps" is wrong, because they weren't trying to kill them all. The label "concentration camps" is wrong also, because they weren't just interred like the Japanese in America, they actually worked, and many got paid like American prisoners today who make license plates and washing machines. Which is also slavery, which is also illegal... so America is currently guilty of slavery.


The label "concentration camps" is totally correct. Unlike american prisons (which are far from being the only ones who pay for prisoners labor), Nazis did not care about the health of its prisoners, nor if they were eating and they could randomly kill many of them at once with toxic gas. The payment that an American prisoner gets can be used outside the prison and it is a much better payment than any Nazi prisoner would get. Also, bear in mind that the american prisoner is in jail because he committed a crime (or at least this is how it is supposed to work). The Nazi prisoner did not commit any crime against its community nor had the option to agree to be forced to work. And also the Nazi prisoner also looses his home, everything he owns gets stolen by the Nazi government and, to make things worse, if it is a woman, there was a very high possibility of her getting raped in the concentration camp. Don't you agree that you are trying to be a bit insane to compare these concentration camps with anything civilized nowadays? Labor camps my freaking damn ass, buddy! These are concentration camps or death camps, just like the soviet gulags. If you need real workers, you must give them minimal conditions to work.




G-E wrote:
Here you are applying your perspective to their perspective. This is the exact same argument we can level against Trump, he wants to do bad things, that will hurt some aspects of the economy, for his own reasons, which are shared by millions of white men in America.

The Nazis wanted to conquer Europe, to that end they needed slave labour, just like the Roman empire did. They enslaved as they expanded, even the conscription into the army was the exact same tactic, these Germans were not dumb.


It's not a matter of being dumb. People choose directions and objectives that may ruin the economy on its own. Then, they apply solutions that may tone down certain problems, but it will create other bigger ones... until it becomes a huge snow ball of hell.


G-E wrote:
What Israel is doing is illegal, and as the occupying power they have no legitimacy over dictating what is justified in the occupied territory. It doesn't matter if the PA is corrupt (which they are) and it doesn't matter if Hamas fires pipe rockets. Israel has no right to be there, and therefore can't claim self-defense, or send in the military to crush the opposition.


Actually, not really. If a country is being attacked by an enemy army, their leaders will either:

a) Ignore the attack and hope that it to let it go.
b) Use diplomacy and UN to stop the attacks.
c) Declare war at the enemy and invade it to cripple its attack abilities.

Considering that in this situation options (a) and (b) are not viable. Any country would choose option (c). Of course that this is not a desirable option at all and it must be avoided at all costs.

But that does not justify 'colonization', right? That's true. As I said before, 'colonization' is a negotiation tool of Israel on the potential peace treats with Palestinian authorities. I reserve the right to not express my opinion about it here, as I think it is difficult to come with solutions for the problem.





G-E wrote:
This is another kind of misdirection. If the Palestinian leadership is incapable of controlling their population, it is because the Palestinian people can't control their own destiny period.


Nope. The problem is that certain militias have more power than authorities in a large percentage of the territory. Militias like Hamas replace the State in the whole Gaza and they have a completely different agenda from the Palestine Authority. So, yes, there is a very serious internal problem that is unrelated to Israel as well.

Quote:
If the PA can't stop Israel from invading whenever they feel like it, and can't stop the Israeli harassment of their citizens, and can't stop the illegal blockading of travel, then what good are they?


They could at least try to serve their people with a minimum structure, constitution, law enforcers, sanitation, water, education, hospitals, etc... A State doesn't only have military purposes. PA fails to serve their population.

Quote:
Why would a Palestinian obey their puppet leadership, which is paid by Israel too? I'm guessing you didn't know that.


I'm not sure how much they pay, if they really pay anything... but I think they do not pay enough money, considering how PA's attitudes on UN are hostile to Israel.





G-E wrote:

Hahah what? That's exactly their objective! Read your history! when Israel was created, they had to expel 3/4 million families.


If you are talking about this, then you've failed to read your history correctly. Let me read it for you:

Wikipedia wrote:
Of the estimated 950,000 Arabs that lived in the territory that became Israel before the war,[28] over 80% fled or were expelled. Benny Morris says,

   Most of Palestine's 700,000 "refugees" fled their homes because of the flail of war (and in the expectation that they would shortly return to their homes on the backs of victorious Arab invaders). But it is also true that there were several dozen sites, including Lydda and Ramla, from which Arab communities were expelled by Jewish troops.


And that's expected, since there were several wars there (the region became very unstable), most of them started by the arabs, who did not accept the creation of the State of Israel.

Now, I'm not saying that Israel is made of saints, but if Israel's objective was to expel the arabs as you claim so much, why is there over 1.6 million arabs there (20%+ of the population), which is more than the amount of arabs back in 1948?



G-E wrote:
Since then, they have waged 2 wars to take more land,


Ok, that's true.


Quote:
When Israel offered to give occupied land back to Egypt and Jordan, it was with explicitly negotiated deals allowing them full military control over the West Bank and Gaza, and other bits of territory they didn't give back.

You might ask why their neighbours agreed to let Israel keep the land, because their big brother supported them at the international level, and it gave them a way to save face. The alternative was never to get any of the land back. It was rigged from the start.


I did not understand what you are saying here.

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G-E
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Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Banshee wrote:
G-E wrote:
Except we do understand what's going on, there are plenty of people documenting what's going on, and the Israeli govt even admits most of it. ...


No, you don't know what's going on. You have no clue at all. You trust too much the biased news sources. You don't live there. You don't feel the tension and the emotions from that people. You don't understand their culture and how that population interacts ...

We know what is happening, not necessarily who ordered what, or what someone was feeling at a given moment. We don't absolve people of murder just because they are thinking of cotton candy or following orders. I fully agree that we don't feel just how dehumanized the region is, or how people can reach a point where their own lives don't matter, but this isn't the issue, we know it's still wrong.

I don't know where you stand, but there's two ways to look at law and justice: one is that human rights are inalienable, god given, universal etc, OR to accept them only in the context of the legal structure within a nation, and therefore the nation has full discretion to decide what is legal or just.

Thing is, we have a case where Palestinian land is occupied by a foreign power named Israel, who collects taxes, apportions whatever services it feels like, decides who gets to walk or drive on which road, and who gets to live or die. In this scenario, universal rights are being violated, since we have plenty of objective examples, confessions etc, AND any nationally defined rights are being violated, because the Palestinians never made the acts being perpetrated legal.

Banshee wrote:
You don't care about understand people there. You only see Israel oppressing Palestines.

Which is illegal accord to the UN, ICC, ICRC, etc.. etc...

Banshee wrote:
A referendum done after they expelled the ucranians is a biased referendum. That's why the international community did not take it seriously at all.

Estimates showed 92% of the Crimean population was ethnically Russian, and voted nearly unanimously to leave Ukraine. Let's say your argument is 100% true, would the non-Russians who left have changed anything?

Are you also aware that Ukraine has been ethnically cleansing the areas around Crimea, and the Donbass region of ethic Russians? If we are to judge the expulsion in Crimea harshly, then we must judge the leadership in Kiev even MORE harshly.

Kiev is still shelling the area, and appears to have been amassing forces for a fresh invasion into Donbass with the army. An army full of new recruits from Turkey (aka the same fighters called "moderate opposition" in Syria), along with American and British mercenaries. The war crimes of Kiev are only going to increase, and it's safe to say none of them will be prosecuted in the slightest, because the ICC is a western controlled kangaroo court.

Banshee wrote:
And what I said is that the number of deaths were guessed all the time. There were millions of people killed. The exact number nobody will ever know. The bodies aren't there anymore. Different sources will give different numbers. It's like in a street protest here. Police, research institutions and organizers gives completely crazy different numbers for the amount of people who attended it.

...

Really? And these diseases happened because they cared so much about the health of their labor, right? Very effective, heh? The tattoo was just a way to keep control of things. No big deal.

I'm not absolving the Nazis in any European country of anything, just making a point that the narrative is completely hijacked by the victors.

When we are literally not allowed to question or re-investigate history, that's not science, that's religion. How many events in history do you know of that you aren't allowed to question besides the official story of the holocost? Even the 9/11 bullshit is legal to question.

Banshee wrote:
The label "concentration camps" is totally correct. Unlike american prisons (which are far from being the only ones who pay for prisoners labor), Nazis did not care about the health of its prisoners, nor if they were eating and they could randomly kill many of them at once with toxic gas. The payment that an American prisoner gets can be used outside the prison and it is a much better payment than any Nazi prisoner would get. Also, bear in mind that the american prisoner is in jail because he committed a crime (or at least this is how it is supposed to work).

We all know many of the people in American prisons only committed the crime of being black, but I was referring to the Japanese being rounded up during the war specifically. They were given no ability to work for release, make money, own anything, etc. They were treated the same way the people in Guantanamo were from a legal standpoint, complete limbo. We can argue the Guantanamo prisoners were being tortured far more than the Japanese, but they also had better healthcare. Both are unjust and illegal in the eyes of international law.

All political detentions are illegal.

Banshee wrote:
Actually, not really. If a country is being attacked by an enemy army, their leaders will either:

a) Ignore the attack and hope that it to let it go.
b) Use diplomacy and UN to stop the attacks.
c) Declare war at the enemy and invade it to cripple its attack abilities.

Considering that in this situation options (a) and (b) are not viable. Any country would choose option (c). Of course that this is not a desirable option at all and it must be avoided at all costs.

I wasn't clear who you are suggesting is the country being attacked, but the way I see it the aggressor is Israel exclusively in my example. And according to international law, the aggressor on foreign soil forfeits all legal protections. Right or wrong, the Palestinians have every right to murder every single Israeli on Palestinian soil. This "right" does not extend to Palestinians attacking aid workers, children, or torturing Israeli soldiers however, which as far as I can tell hasn't happened anyway.

Banshee wrote:
Militias like Hamas replace the State in the whole Gaza and they have a completely different agenda from the Palestine Authority. So, yes, there is a very serious internal problem that is unrelated to Israel as well.

Let me say it again, the "state" (PA) has no power except the powers that Israel grants it. If the PA decides to do something Israel doesn't like, they don't pay them. Israel withheld millions from Palestine during all the major negotiations with Arafat, because Arafat genuinely tried to help his people. Abbas is a spineless bureaucrat who's more interested in keeping his job, that's why you all you ever hear from him is soothing words.

Without funding, the PA is crippled. It is economic blackmail, forced coercion. Completely illegal.

Banshee wrote:
If you are talking about this, then you've failed to read your history correctly. Let me read it for you:

*snip*

And that's expected, since there were several wars there (the region became very unstable), most of them started by the arabs, who did not accept the creation of the State of Israel.

Now, I'm not saying that Israel is made of saints, but if Israel's objective was to expel the arabs as you claim so much, why is there over 1.6 million arabs there (20%+ of the population), which is more than the amount of arabs back in 1948?

It's all well and good to say the Arabs left so it's their fault. Except you then have to acknowledge that Israel never let them back. Israel took the land and built their own stuff, for their people, and setup the laws specifically to give Jewish citizens more rights than non-Jews.

Today, the minority of Arabs living within Israel proper, are still considered second-class, can be stripped of citizenship and deported to Palestine. Which is ALSO illegal under several parts of international law, one of which revolves around deporting people to miltary conflict zones, which an occupied territory can qualify to be.

There are further aspects, such as not guaranteeing basic human necessities when deporting them, since Palestine doesn't have a refugee shelter system, or much of a welfare apparatus. Thus a former-Israeli citizen really has no choice but to move to Jordan's refugee camps, or Lebanon, and ultimately try to find their way to Europe.


Quote:
When Israel offered to give occupied land back to Egypt and Jordan, it was with explicitly negotiated deals allowing them full military control over the West Bank and Gaza, and other bits of territory they didn't give back.

Banshee wrote:
I did not understand what you are saying here.

The post-war settlement that involved Israel returning seized territory to Egypt, Jordan etc, was predicated on Israel keeping the parts it wanted. There was no real/fair negotiation, because Israel would not have given back _any_ of the land, if the other countries didn't agree.

The Egyptian part of the story is well chronicled, how there was unrest at home, and a lot of anti-Israel sentiment, but by agreeing to the return conditions, managed to save face. by negotiating, it didn't look like they were defeated then, compared to continued Israeli occupation of the Sinai.

At the time, Egypt's military was decimated, and if it had tried to seize back the lands by force, Israel would have humiliated them even more. America, France and England were supporting Israel throughout, even if Israel was on the verge of losing, they would have stepped in to turn the tide. Egypt was out of options, as was Jordan.

Ironically, Lebanon and Hezbollah were the only force that successfully repelled Israeli aggression, which is why they are labelled terrorists today.
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Millennium
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my estimation, and sorry if I get that wrong, I was only able to skim over this thread so far, you are not talking about the same subject.

G-E is saying that there is a group of people, lets call them "J₁", which he calls "world jewry", but who he explicity says to not be encompassing all jews and says to be perhaps even non-practicing and who are disproportionately responsible for actions that we could call very generally "crimes against humanity". He causally links (as far as I understand it) J₁'s propensity for harmful behaviour to the values of Jewish religious scripture.  

Beyond debating the fine points of Holodomor death tolls and displaced Palestine families, essentially this is happening:

Banshee is pointing out that the actions of "the Jews" are not the sole factor in producing these negative outcomes, and that in those cases where actions of Jews happen to be conductive of producing harm, this is not related to their status as Jews (ethnic or religious background). Banshee seems to be defending a group that is encompassing Jews in general - let's call that group J₂.

J₁ is a sub-set of J₂ (if we assume that non-practicing people can still be members of the religion that they are not-practicing... an odd proposition, in a way, but one that is commonly accepted, so let's go with it).

This debate, in my estimation, naturally ensued because of the causal significance that G-E attaches to the factor "Jewish religious scripture" - this factor necessarily applies to all Jews (J₂), but - and G-E acknowledges that (according to my reading) - only J₁ exhibits the behaviour that G-E causally links to that factor. But because he implicates a factor that applies to the entirety of Jews, people who think that all Jews are not "evil" will oppose G-E's assessment because they naturally think that G-E is linking the harmful behaviour to EVERYONE the factor applies to*, although on the layer of who is "evil", G-E does not differ from their assessment in principle - some Jews are "evil", some are not.

Perhaps, to resolve this debate, it would be helpful if we could find additional factors beyond the Jewish religious scripture that would contribute to whether a given person the factor applies to becomes "evil" or not?

* Or let's rather put it this way: if the factor G-E sees as the cause were really the cause, one would logically expect all Jews to exhibit the behaviour that G-E explicity links to a portion of Jews. In other words, if someone is criticizing G-E's calling all Jews "evil", they are unconsciously making up for what I perceive to be a "logical gap" in G-E's argument - i.e. "if Judaism predisposes to evil, it would be logical that all Jews are evil", but are thereby attacking a straw man - G-E never said that all Jews are evil, only that there is a portion of Jews which is evil, because they are Jewish.
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G-E
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you mostly have it right.

Being Jewish doesn't make you evil, but there is something in the very old Jewish culture, and even more of it in the modern American-Jewish culture that seems to twist their minds towards certain perversions or morality, a subversive bent, and racism, which is then spread by their network of overwhelming influence to the rest of the western world. It is this new American-Jew mentality, that influenced the Jewish intelligencia, everywhere.

The Bolshevik revolution and the Zionist movements are really not that different, at the heart of them are Jewish ideologies, and Jewish thinkers. Both started out as fringe groups, gained momentum, and took over entire cultures. Today we live in a Zionist-led western culture, which has by coincidence or deliberation, incorporated ever more Jewish ideologies and Jewish moral fluidity.

Yet if you will also notice, most of the Jewish culture that supports this new Jewified society, actually stands apart from it. We talked about the Mennenites, or the various other Orthodox branches of Judaism, and clearly they don't want their own people indulging in moral depravity, that is reserved for us goyim. Jewish culture is one of hypocrisy and exceptionalism, and it's a big part of why America is so fucked up.





Everytime an Israeli is hurt, I will hear it on every news network here in the west. Everytime a Palestinian is hurt, evicted, their home bulldozed, their son killed, the body withheld for ransom, there is silence, unless it happened to be very horrific, or as a footnote to the story of the Israeli.
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G-E
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should add one thing here because doubtless some of you will scratch your heads at a supposed paradox.

I am not a prude, I like porn, I don't like censorship, in fact many of the "perversions" I speak about as Jewish derived ideologies are in fact not specifically the danger. Ideas should be discussed, words are not dangerous per se, as long as they are balanced with healthy debate and criticism.

The danger is that the prudish Christians, the Puritans that founded America were the kind of narrow minded people that couldn't tolerate social and sexual liberation. They (and many other people) didn't discuss moral issues beyond what is righteous vs what is evil. They have trouble understanding that there's a full spectrum. Add to this the fact that America loved censorship, meant that many of these ideas were not openly discussed, they percolated through the culture in isolated pocked, creating volcanos of revolutionary thought.

It is the fact that in Europe, people were already much more culturally aware, socially liberal, because they were very much used to migrations of people and ideas. As an intellectually dominated society which discussed these things, they had something like a moral immune system. To most Europeans, these ideologies were about as important as whether you liked your bagel with poppy seeds or sesame seeds.

Europe went to hell after what the Jewish central bankers and their minions in the English and American govts did to Germany after WWI, crushing it's economy and guaranteeing civil unrest. The lesson they learned was not that war is profitable, but that they can engineer societies, and create war! They created the conditions for Hitler, they funded Hitler and his right-wing populist army who were sick of the unfair reparations and economic depression.

There is a very complex interplay which creates massive contradiction.
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Administrative Warning: Administrative Warning: Political Conspirator Detected!The political opinions expressed by this user in this forum are blindly hostile against Israel and whatever he considers to be Zionism or Zionists. Samples of such behavior can be seen here, here and here. His tactics consists on desconstructing what he considers to be the 'official story' blaming "Zionist" media for "lies", but he never has the intention to prove his claims. He tries to use psychological rethorics to provoke others to prove it in his place and only seem to accept "proofs" (a.k.a. factoids) that seems to fit his shaped opinion about the subject. A proper explanation on his tactics with samples can be seen here and here.


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Millennium
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, a starting hypothesis for me (one that I did not yet fully think through) is:

1)
That if "Jewishness" promotes "harm", then operates on several layers:
You might be right that Judaism has played a role in shaping some individuals into amoral people, as one of several other factors.
On another layer, "Jewish Identity" operates to create loyalty (as with any sort of group identity) that overcomes ethic evaluation, or simply fosters a scenario in which people who subscribe to that identity are selected into a group which supports unethical conduct. For example, citizens of Israel could be argued to support crimes against humanity, but not because they are Jewish, but because they are citizens of Israel. And they are citizens of Israel because they were selected for being Jewish - i.e. Jewishness operating as one tier in a multi-tier causal structure.
I.e., although some Jews are more "evil" than other people because they are Jews, a large portion of Jews doesn't have to be any more "evil" than any ordinary person to support evil. Just like the leaders of Germany 1936-45 were perhaps "evil", the ordinary German did not have to be any more evil than the ordinary Russian, American and so forth in order to do "evil" things.

2)
I think that it's not accurate to single out Judaism as an identity/culture-complex that promotes harm in this way. I'm not saying that you are incorrect, but rather that your reasoning can be expanded upon several other cultures, or temporary manifestations of culture (Apartheid, Western-European colonialism, Hitlerism (which I am loathe to call "National Socialism"), Islam at times, Japan during WW2...) The issue seems to be generally one of group identity overcoming ethic evaluation by the individual - which is, of course, something of a commonplace truth à la The Third Wave and the Stanford Prison Experiment. Is it plausible that the same kind of group-identity-over-ethical-evaluation persists in the Jewish population? At least for the citizens of Israel, I wouldn't discount that out of hand. But again, I do think that is part of a much more general class of social phenomenon that exists in other cultures and people, historically and currently.

Again, that's all good and well for theoretical consideration, but I will opt to say that it needs more data...
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Millennium wrote:
On another layer, "Jewish Identity" operates to create loyalty (as with any sort of group identity) that overcomes ethic evaluation, or simply fosters a scenario in which people who subscribe to that identity are selected into a group which supports unethical conduct. For example, citizens of Israel could be argued to support crimes against humanity, but not because they are Jewish, but because they are citizens of Israel. And they are citizens of Israel because they were selected for being Jewish - i.e. Jewishness operating as one tier in a multi-tier causal structure.
I.e., although some Jews are more "evil" than other people because they are Jews, a large portion of Jews doesn't have to be any more "evil" than any ordinary person to support evil. Just like the leaders of Germany 1936-45 were perhaps "evil", the ordinary German did not have to be any more evil than the ordinary Russian, American and so forth in order to do "evil" things.

This is more or less what I've said, but Jewish "identity politics" is multi-faceted, and it is they who refer to themselves as Jewish, or claim allegiance to Israel, despite being secular distant cousins. So please understand when I mean Jewish, I mean the political identity they like to share, with or without curly sideburns, not Judaic specifically.

That said, tour mini-thesis discovery process overlooks the importance of who controls/shapes the message, and who controls the discourse with the authority of law or via cultural (Marxist) censorship.

You also ignore the fact that I'm not bringing up Japanese culture, even though they did pretty horrific things in WW2, because that culture didn't prevail. Sure there's lots of influence in any global discussion, with global agendas, but even there, we largely get a filtered view of the world, and guess who controls the filters?

The dominant culture, in almost all western societies is defined and shaped by American-Zionist entities, using "Jewish" controlled media outlets, using Jewish and pro-Israeli "values" if you can call them that. The demographics may be changing, and maybe one day latinos and blacks will have a greater influence on American/western culture, but at the moment that's not possible. All the major networks and Hollywood studios have Jewish owners. They act like a cartel, with their own thugs to make sure no one they don't like gets into the club.

I don't think you realize just how many TV shows and movies portray Jewish families, and Jewish moral conflicts, as typical white American (western) life. It's also not an accident that Yiddish slang has become the unofficial American slang of the upper-middle classes.

Many of you seem to think I'm trying to make connections where there are none, to serve some agenda, when what I'm really doing is following the connections based on careful observation. I'm by no means special here, many many other people have reached the same conclusions when trying to objectively figure out what the hell is going on.

Millennium wrote:
I think that it's not accurate to single out Judaism as an identity/culture-complex that promotes harm in this way....

The Knesset passed a law to declare Israel a "Jewish" state, with the implication that all citizens can only be Jewish. Many Rabbis have come out in support of the ethnic cleansing, some with very extreme views, clearly racist in origin, justified by their persecution complex, mixed with their traditional Judaic chosenness. However, some have taken the hypocritical position of suggesting anyone can be Israeli, as long as they embrace Jewish values.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Banshee wrote:
For starters, slave labour is never acceptable under any circumstances. It is a tragedy, a crime against humanity and a complete absurd, what happened in that place. And if it was just slave labour, why would they use gas to kill millions of people? It doesn't make sense at all. If they simply had slaves, it would be better to transfer them into other concentration slavery camp. Do you really believe at this non-sense that you wrote? Of course that it is a concentration camp and I'm pretty sure that if you were one of victims there or someone close to you from your family were one of them, you wouldn't write such lamentable sentences.

When you have a nearly endless supply of labourers from the countries you control, you don't much care for their wellbeing above the most basic standard that they can survive the ordeal. Pointing out the Nazis did what the Romans, Egyptians, Americans, and many other empires did, should not absolve them of anything, nor should it apply any extra emphasis. How can we selectively say that 1 murder is a historical curiosity, while another murder is evil?

You are right though, your ASSUMPTION based on the decades of lies makes no sense. Millions of Jews were not gassed and burned for sport. Millions of Jews died in horrible conditions, then were either buried or burned depending when and where. Not every camp was able to cremate the dead.

Do you remember that scene in Schindler's List, where a bunch of naked Europeans (implicitly Jewish for the impact, although realistically mixed with political prisoners) are unloaded from a train, stripped, and then sent to the showers? Remember how they all spread rumours about the evil Nazis burning people alive and gassing them? Then remember they all get in the shower in a panic, and THEY GET SHOWERED? Yea, that's how it happened.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As an aside, here's a great example of Jewish power...

Canadian tapped for a UN human rights appointment, Israel freaks out:
https://richardedmondson.net/2016/03/24/israel-supporters-screech-and-howl-over-un-special-rapporteur-appointment/

Bnai Brith pressures Canadian govt to oppose!
http://canadatalksisraelpalestine.ca/2016/03/28/dion-crumbles-before-cija-attack-on-un-nominee-as-palestinian-human-rights-rapporteur/

Minister's response:
http://ipolitics.ca/2016/03/29/dion-might-owe-the-uns-new-palestinian-expert-an-apology-in-person-this-time/
Quote:

“We strongly denounce the appointment of Michael Lynk to this role,” said Centre for Israel and Jewish Affairs CEO Shimon Fogel. “Despite the specific requirement that candidates for the position demonstrate impartiality and objectivity, Mr. Lynk has a long record of involvement with anti-Israel initiatives and has repeatedly made public statements that demonstrate hostility towards Israel.” Fogel called on the Government of Canada to object to Lynk’s appointment.

“Lynk’s crime? According to CIJA, Lynk is on record as critical of Israel, even going so far as to claim in an op ed in the Toronto Star that Israel should be investigated for possible war crimes following the 2014 Gaza war.


Meanwhile Brazil successfully got Israel to withdraw their ambassador for his advocacy of Jewish settlements...
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Banshee wrote:
Anti-zionist media that seems to connect the concepts of the Jewish religion into some crazy zionist...


Wait a minute... YOU JUST ztyping SAID IT, right there! Congratulations! Although they don't seem, they DO, as I and others have presented in countless links over the past month or so.

So, so Zionists... yeeup. Now, why are they crazy? Because they're total assholes that hijacked a decent enough religion.

Islam, Christianity and Judaism all came from one central source, "the things of Abraham". Google that if you will.

So they're all decent little religions, that would help out a blind amnesiac man. But they've all been hijacked by khazarian/Zionists, and those guys want to steal everything the blind amnesiac man has. Poor little guy.

Now of course its gonna be the anti-zionist media, that helps spread the word about this treachery. What the ztype did you expect? The Central Major Mass Media to tell you this? No, those guys are paid by the zionists.

Zionists/Khazarians are complete evil bastards. They got some of the best whips hitting you in the back right now, and you don't even know it! Although hopefully you will soon.

- - -

Anyways, one of the better names to call these hijackers is crypto-Zionism. I like to always call them Khazarians, because Khazar was a country full of these negative elite pricks back in the day. The Negative Elite Cabal, or simply Cabal is another unified term to

Heres a nice summary, or you can just read the full article here.  

https://thedshow.wordpress.com/2013/01/28/week-1-notes-khazars-zionism-rothschilds-jews-israel/

Quote:
KHAZARS & THE TRUE JEWISH PEOPLE

The Sumerian and Babylonian peoples migrated north into an area near the Caucasus Mountains.

There were two separate migrations of Sumerian people out of Mesopotamia.

1) One was through Turkey to the Carpathian Basin, which includes Romania – home of the vampire legends of Transylvania – Hungary, Bulgaria, and the countries of the former Yugoslavia, like Serbia and Croatia.

2) The other Sumerian peoples went east, and then north, across the Caucasus Mountains into the area between the Caspian and Black Sea. These latter Sumerians became the Khazars and their new country was called Khazaria.

Around 740AD, the king of Khazaria, King Bulan, adopted the religion of Judaism and the whole nation did the same.

With the eventual break-up of Khazaria, these converts to Judaism moved north to become the East European Jewish communities while many went on into West Europe. Among these people was the family that would become the Rothschilds.

Over the years the Rothschild family was known under many names, one of them in particular was known as Bauer.

The Khazars are the ancestors of more than 90 percent of the people calling themselves Jewish today and the Khazars had no connection whatsoever with the land of Israel. Their home was not the Dead Sea, but the Caspian Sea, which was once known as the Khazar Sea.

Thomas Thomson, Professor of the Old Testament at the University of Copenhagen, demolishes the beliefs about a biblical Israel in his book, The Mythic Past. “There was no Adam and Eve, no Noah or Abraham, no Moses or Joshua, and we now know why. These were invented characters based on the far older accounts of Sumer, Babylon, and Mesopotamia.”

“When one investigates the history of Palestine independently of the biblical view of the past, this period betrays little evidence of biblical  Israel’s emergence…There is no evidence of a United Monarchy, no evidence of a capitol in Jerusalem or of any coherent, unified political force that dominated western Palestine, let alone an empire of the size the legends describe. We do not have evidence for the existence of the king name Saul, David or Solomon; nor do we have the evidence of any temple at Jerusalem in the early period.”

The Khazars fought, made alliances and interbred with people like the Viking Rus (Became the Russians) and the Magyars with whom they had extremely close relations. Khazars were vital in the creation of the Magyar homeland of Hungary.


It goes on and on; there is alot of history with these pricks.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love how they call me a conspiracy theorist, when the truth is staring them in the face, from Schindler's List, which is made by Jewish filmmaker no less.

Communal showers. Cramped housing barracks. Prisoners who had jobs.

People need to remember Occam's Razor... the simplest explanations are usually the right ones. Either I'm right, or the following is true:

The Nazis built thousands of buildings to lodge these inmates, disinfected trains and buildings, kept detailed medical records of everyone, tattooed everyone with unique identifies, gave everyone uniforms, built all sorts of facilities like showers that were really gas chambers in disguise, JUST TO KILL THEM AND BURN THEM ALL.

I dunno about you, but the second option sure sounds like "conspiracy theory" to me. Of course if anyone wants specifics I can dig up any number of articles about the "gas chambers" and prove they are full of shit... er wait I can't, because THAT'S ILLEGAL IN A WESTERN COUNTRY.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

See, that's some inconsequential spin-off to the question at hand, in my opinion.
I disagree with you. I think the German political establishment did want to exterminate the Jews, at least in the mid-term. Occam's Razor works both ways, claiming a Jewish conspiracy in the media to synthesize the claim of planned Jewish extermination with what you interpret to be absence of evidence for that claim is just as "unnecessary complicating" as the claim of planned Jewish extermination is "unnecessary complicating" to someone who sees absence of evidence for that claim.

But I don't think that agreeing or disagreeing on this point has any bearing on your general theory. Your theory can stand or fall regardless of whether Germany meant to exterminate the Jews or not (unless I'm missing something important). It would stand and fall even regardless of whether Germany "enslaved" the Jews or not, although you concede that this did happen. It might not be helpful to get dragged into these inconsequential fields of debate (neither from your point of view, nor from Banshee's).
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like I said I was only pointing out that the western version of history is basically riddled with lies, and because of the power a certain group holds over the narrative, we are not even allowed to question it. It's the same deal with "climate change", it has become a hysterical religion that has no place for scientific or logical criticism.

You're right, whether the Nazis tried to exterminate the Jews doesn't matter, except in the context of whether that belief is manufactured with lies and marketing tricks. Many positive stories about successes in WW2 are phony as well, the narrative encompasses both kinds of lies.

The Jewish culture itself is wrapped in a blanket of obfuscation, lies, and misdirection. The political and cultural leaders of the Jewish people hide their methods and intentions well. They have managed to hide the very nature of their exported ideologies too, by associating them with good causes like socialism, multi-culturalism, sexual freedom, religious tolerance, and then perverting many of those to achieve a hidden agenda.

Whether or not the leaders of the Jewish people are satanists, pagans, crypto-jews, or whatever, is actually beside the point. What is important is that they control the narrative, they have way too much control over the legal systems in western countries, they have way too much political influence, and they completely dominate the vehicle that in many ways defines what it means to be a westerner period. Through their network of lobbies, and satellite opposition, they can control acedemia, stifle scientific/political dissent, and prevent real discourse to solve the very real problems they caused.

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/03/30/how-they-brainwash-us-paul-craig-roberts/
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/04/01/for-israels-sake-the-israel-lobby-must-be-held-to-account-paul-craig-roberts/

Quote:
It was ten years ago that the London Review of Books published an article on the Israel Lobby by John J. Mearsheimer and Stephen M. Walt, distinguished scholars at two of America’s top universities. The following year the publisher, Farrar, Straus and Giroux found the courage to publish The Israel Lobby, a book with 357 overwhelmingly 5 star amazon.com reviews.

The Israel Lobby is an understated critique of the enomous influence that the tiny state of Israel, which consists of land stolen by fire and sword from the helpless Palestinians, exercises over United States foreign policy. The crazed Israel Lobby went berserk. Mearsheimer and Walt were demonized as anti-semites who wanted to bring back Hitler.

Also in 2006 former President Jimmy Carter’s book, Peace Not Apartheid, was published by Simon & Schuster and became a New York Times bestseller with 846 overwhelmingly 5 star amazon.com reviews. Carter, who as US president did his best to bring Israel and Palestine to a settlement, truthrully explained that Israel was the barrier to a settlement. The Israel Lobby demonized Carter as an anti-semite, and the Jews on the board of the Carter Center resigned.

No member of the Israel Lobby has the stature and distinction of Mearsheimer, Walt, and President Carter. The Lobby’s operatives are people of no significance who make a living slandering, libeling, and trying to destroy the reputation of everyone who makes the slightest criticism of Israeli government policies.

This tells us that the Israel Lobby knows that Israel’s behavior is so atrocious that it cannot stand the slightest examination. We can criticize Moscow without being labeled “anti-Russian,” and we can criticize Washington without being labeled “anti-American,” but we cannot criticize Israel without being labeled an “anti-semite” and accused of wanting to restart the holocaust.

Nevertheless, just as the Gestapo was untruthful but effective, the Israel Lobby is untruthful but effective. The Lobby has established its hegemony over the US publisher, McGraw-Hill. The cowardly publisher was forced to burn its own books and to destroy all copies of a widely used textbook, Global Politics: Engaging a Complex World. The book had to be destroyed, because it contained accurate maps showing the transformation of Palestine from a land inhabited by Palestinians into a land occupied by Zionists, sprinkled with a few Palestinian ghettos.

These maps are available all over the Internet, and any remaining professors sufficiently brave to call them to the attention of students can refer students to the Internet. Here is the URL to an article by Lawrence Davidson about McGraw-Hill’s submission to censorship that contains the maps:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article44487.htm

The behavior of the Israel Lobby indicates that far stronger criticism of the Lobby is warranted than supplied by Mearsheimer, Walt, and President Carter. In 2007 the Lobby was able to reach into a Catholic University, DePaul, and overturn the decision of the tenure committee to award tenure to Norman Finkelstein, a distinguished Jewish scholar of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, who was declared by the Lobby to be an enemy of Israel. The craven cowardice of the DePaul University president, administration, and trustees indicates the power that the Lobby is so proud to have but consistently denies having.

In 2015 the Israel Lobby was able to reach into the University of Illinois and have rescinded the tenured appointment extended to Steven Salaita and accepted by him. Salaita resigned his tenure at Virginia Tech and sold his home, only to have his appointment resinded by University of Illinois chancellor Phyllis M. Wise and the university trustees, who apparently were offered large monetary donations to the university in return for reneging on the university’s contract with Salaita. Salaita had tweeted some criticism of the Israeli government’s behavior, and this transformed the scholar into an anti-semite.

Of all the countries in the world, only Israel cannot be criticized, not even by experts on the basis of established facts. This kind of power is illegitimate and unconscionable. The fact that American universities and publishers submit to it indicates the death of free speech and academic inquiry in the United States.

The Lobby’s power is a danger to Israel. The Lobby’s reliance and that of the Zionist government on force majeure alienates the rest of the world, but creates a hubristic sense of invulnerability in Israel itself. The pride that Israeli politicians express in their ability to control US foreign policy and the pride that the Lobby enjoys in its influence over US academic appointments, journalism appointments,and decisions of textbook publishers leads to an arrogance that eventially over reaches. In the meantime Israel is busy at work eliminaing friends whose constructive criticisms are intended to save Israel from a future of woe and misery. The result for Israel will be isolation.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

By complete coincidence, a friend linked me to this article, I'm not even sure why, since we were talking about a friend of his having family probs...

https://biblicisminstitute.wordpress.com/2014/07/27/jesus-was-not-a-jew/

Banshee, this should clear up many of the points I made (probably inadequately) about the people we know as "Jews" vs what you think of as people of Judaism. A small snippet below:

Quote:
“The best known 18th century editions of the New Testament in English are the Rheims (Douai) Edition and the King James Authorized Edition. The Rheims (Douai) translation of the New Testament into English was first printed in 1582 but the word ‘Jew’ did not appear in it.

“The King James Authorized translation of the New Testament into English was begun in 1604 and first published in 1611. The word ‘Jew’ did not appear in it either. The word ‘Jew’ appeared in both these well known editions in their 18th century revised versions for the first times.

“When the word ‘Jew’ was first introduced into the English language in the 18th century its one and only implication, inference and innuendo was ‘Judean’. However, during the 18th, 19th, and 20th centuries a well-organized and well-financed international ‘pressure group’ created a so-called ‘secondary meaning’ for the word ‘Jew’ among the English-speaking peoples of the world. This so-called ‘secondary meaning’ for the word ‘Jew’ bears no relation whatsoever to the 18th century original connotation of the word ‘Jew’. It is a misrepresentation.

“The present generally accepted secondary meaning of the word ‘Jew’ is fundamentally responsible for the confusion in the minds of Christians regarding elementary tenets of the Christian faith. It is likewise responsible today to a very great extent for the dilution of the devotion of countless Christians for their Christian faith.

“Christians today are becoming more and more alerted day by day why the so-called or self-styled ‘Jews’ throughout the world for three centuries have spent uncounted sums of money to manufacture the fiction that the ‘Judeans’ in the time of Jesus were ‘Jews’ rather than ‘Judeans’, and that ‘Jesus was a Jew’.” See How the Ashkenazi Jews conquered the West

The forced evolution of the word “Jew” is similar to the evolution that befell the word “gay”. Gay=Merry became Gay=Homosexual. Try telling someone who’s happy (and who’s not a homosexual) that you’re glad he’s so “gay” and see what happens.

Another example is when many Christians today interact with a Jew they just met, their immediate reaction is to say: “Oh, Jesus was a Jew, too.” What they’re unwittingly saying is that “Oh, Jesus was a Pharisee, too.”

Oh, the blasphemy!

The word “Jew” is so entrenched in describing one who follows Pharisaism (or Judaism) that it’s been completely emptied of its original meaning. Hence it no longer describes a Judahite or Judean.

That is why it needs to be struck from the translated bible.
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Location: North America Posts: You cannot comprehend...

PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Volgin wrote:
EXCUSE ME FURRY QUEEN AND EVANB90, STOP SILENCING THE TRUTH that g-e needs to get out of his mother's basement and see the sun and stop thinking the jews are out there running the world.


You see how useless these people are? Volgin, you boring piece of uselessness, you have no ztyping clue what to do other than troll for this spicy subject.

The simpletons are having a hard time differentiating between normal jews the abrahamic religious followers, and the zionists. Hey there, Banshee 'ole pal. Did yah read up on my previous post yet or what? If so, Are we learning yet, buddy?

- - -

You guys don't really know much about ancient history, do yah? This is why you're confused. You don't have too many clues on where all this shit comes from. Hence, the lack of comprehension from filthy volgins.

In case you haven't already, read this article to expand your horizon, then take a ztyping bath, wash that indoctrination right off yah:

https://thedshow.wordpress.com/2013/01/28/week-1-notes-khazars-zionism-rothschilds-jews-israel/

If you don't read it, that means you don't care for the subject. So, why the ztype are you here then? 4Star, you better ztyping read this shit. You got some serious catching up to do. All of you do.

Its par for the course.
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