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RedAlert++
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Allen
Stealth Laser Trooper


Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Location: C:\Westwood\ TechLevel=12

PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 11:24 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

temp wrote:
Nice progress. but the icons of allied seems a bit bright maybe you have to remake them. I would love to contribute but unlike C++ i am weak at C#


Maybe RedAlert++ could use help. They are rebuilding Red Alert 1 in C++ from scrach. http://redalertpp.org/ or https://forums.cncnet.org/index.php?board=113.0
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temp
Rocket Infantry


Joined: 17 Oct 2015

PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where is the source so i can see their progress?
anyway i am working on my private Engine in C++
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Allen
Stealth Laser Trooper


Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Location: C:\Westwood\ TechLevel=12

PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The cncnet.org link is there fourms. All work on RA++ seem to be private so there is no code around to look at. Last I knew RA++ was doing map rendering.

Work on RA++ is being done by CCHyper and Blade.

I know CCHyper has a profile here and is working on RA++. http://www.ppmforums.com/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=1676

Blade may have one here as well but not sure if they are the same Blade http://www.ppmforums.com/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=748
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temp
Rocket Infantry


Joined: 17 Oct 2015

PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Allen wrote:
The cncnet.org link is there fourms. All work on RA++ seem to be private so there is no code around to look at. Last I knew RA++ was doing map rendering.

Work on RA++ is being done by CCHyper and Blade.

I know CCHyper has a profile here and is working on RA++. http://www.ppmforums.com/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=1676

Blade may have one here as well but not sure if they are the same Blade http://www.ppmforums.com/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=748


Found it today after heavy search.
They didn't change the name of their project yet.

https://github.com/damiencarol/openredalert
why they are using the SDL 1 library while the SDL 2 library is already released?
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Allen
Stealth Laser Trooper


Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Location: C:\Westwood\ TechLevel=12

PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is the old openredalert that has been dead for years. Nothing on that page has been updated in 6 years.

RedAlert++ is currently private. A GitHub page is planned for later once things are more long as said in this page. https://forums.cncnet.org/index.php?topic=4441.0

Last edited by Allen on Sun May 15, 2016 10:20 pm; edited 1 time in total

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temp
Rocket Infantry


Joined: 17 Oct 2015

PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lol there is an old open red alert?
I am going to ask cchyper.
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CCHyper
Defense Minister


Joined: 07 Apr 2005

PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2016 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

temp wrote:
Lol there is an old open red alert?
I am going to ask cchyper.


Long story short, we was going to take over the OpenRedAlert name, but we decided it was in the best interest of us (now RA++) and OpenRA that we choose a new project name, thus RedAlert++ was born.

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temp
Rocket Infantry


Joined: 17 Oct 2015

PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2016 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CCHyper wrote:
temp wrote:
Lol there is an old open red alert?
I am going to ask cchyper.


Long story short, we was going to take over the OpenRedAlert name, but we decided it was in the best interest of us (now RA++) and OpenRA that we choose a new project name, thus RedAlert++ was born.


It is a good name but i have 1 question.

You are aiming to create a Red Alert 1, aren't you ? which is very similar to the old one. And without adding new features or UI or anything New, except bug fixes. Then what is the reason that will make people download yours? they can just make patches for their game.

CCHyper wrote:
-Features-
Utilises the latest open source graphic and audio libraries (SDL, OpenGL and OpenAL). -

- Fully compatable with the original game, allowing you to run the compiled binary as a direct replacement of your original installation. -

- Fixes bugs that appear in the original game, without losing gameplay authenticity. -

- Built on years of thorough research into core gameplay dynamics to deliver a genuine experience. -

- Allows you to continue playing your favourite RTS on a device of your choice. -


These things maynot be important to the players especially " Built on years of through research into core gameplay dynamics to deliver a genuine experience" the only importance that i see is it is cross-platform which OpenRA already did it.

Sorry mate, but your project seems a bit pointless.

It doesn't add anything new (tanks , infantry ,...).

the popularity of OpenRA will cover any C&C games duplicates (simulators) that doesn't serve anything new such as your project + OpenRA is currently heading to Red alert 2 which is the end of C&C classics,
and you can also just edit OpenRA to get the classic look of Red Alert 1 , no need for a whole new project.

Can someone split the Topic?
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Iran
Cyborg Specialist


Joined: 23 Mar 2011

PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2016 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Same reason people prefer playing OpenTTD to playing TTD with TTDPatch...having an open-source clone will allow for so many new features, better support for multiplayer, modding, mapping, help fix tons of bugs and do tons of other amazing stuff like improving AI and bringing the game to other devices.

I'm personally looking forward to RedAlert++

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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2016 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a split from this topic at OpenRA Editing forums.

[Splitted]

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temp
Rocket Infantry


Joined: 17 Oct 2015

PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2016 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iran wrote:
Same reason people prefer playing OpenTTD to playing TTD with TTDPatch...having an open-source clone will allow for so many new features, better support for multiplayer, modding, mapping, help fix tons of bugs and do tons of other amazing stuff like improving AI and bringing the game to other devices.

I'm personally looking forward to RedAlert++


I searched the internet, OpenTTD gives new graphics, features, terrain and more ,while RA++ plan looks like it doesn't have any new feature just Bugfixes and crossplatform..
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Darkstorm
Commander


Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Location: Unknown

PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2016 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be honest, OpenRA just doesn't invoke the same feel that Red Alert does. I don't know why, maybe it's something about the controls but it just feels slow and clunky.

So yeah, I too am looking forward to RedAlert++ a lot. If Arda had as many features as Ares has, I'd probably be modding that instead of messing with OpenRA when doing Red Alert modding.
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Blade
Tiberian Beast


Joined: 23 Dec 2003

PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2016 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

temp wrote:


It is a good name but i have 1 question.

You are aiming to create a Red Alert 1, aren't you ? which is very similar to the old one. And without adding new features or UI or anything New, except bug fixes. Then what is the reason that will make people download yours? they can just make patches for their game.



Why do people still download the CNCNet patched versions? Because people like the old school game play perhaps? In fact as far as I can tell, the originals are still more popular than the OpenRA mods are despite not being properly multi-platform.

That isn't to disparage the work OpenRA have done, they have done some good work and created a unique experience all of their own with twists on the standard C&C RTS formula and they have their fans thanks to that. But its mods are very much their own games these days despite looking like the old WW games.

temp wrote:

the popularity of OpenRA will cover any C&C games duplicates (simulators) that doesn't serve anything new such as your project + OpenRA is currently heading to Red alert 2 which is the end of C&C classics,
and you can also just edit OpenRA to get the classic look of Red Alert 1 , no need for a whole new project.


The people still playing the originals using binary patches suggests otherwise, seems there still is a big market for authentic C&C game play which is what this project will target.

Even if that wasn't the case, as a preservation project this would still IMO be worthwhile to ensure that the original can still be enjoyed somewhat faithfully despite ever changing APIs and computer hardware.

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G-E
General


Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2016 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you're right Blade...

My RA2 mod isn't some graphical masterpiece, but it shines because of the years of work I put into the AI specifically. I mean I could port it to ORA, but I would lose the very core of what makes Scorched Earth so damned fun, and only get some swanky visual effects in return. I know I could expand the mod to take advantage of ORA features not present in RA2, but then like you say, it becomes its own game that only looks like WW -- what's the point of that?

While I'm likely never going to play the RA1/C&C1 remakes, the technological re-development of the engine is intriguing, and something I fully encourage...
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^Rampastein
Rampastring


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2016 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If RA++ will be open source, it'll also give infinite freedom to modders (at least those who know C++), who can then add the new graphics, features, terrain etc. that they want to have.
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Allen
Stealth Laser Trooper


Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Location: C:\Westwood\ TechLevel=12

PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2016 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What a cluseter fark I made....


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Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyörgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2016 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't call the OpenTTD-TTDPatch similarity justified - over there TTDPatch was the first. It still has features OpenTTD doesn't have even today afaik (building stuff on tunnel exits, cargo distribution or destination, forgot which one is TTDP exclusive, seriously, I haven't launched TTDP since 2005 to know which is the one), though. On the other hand, OpenTTD got a lot far away from the standard TTD game with all the subtle changes by now (the AI system is a great example), but it started more like RA++ intends to with revengineering, instead of how OpenRA started.

RA++ aims to be purist on the first place and there are fans of that POV. While I personally amn't among them, I can understand that the CnCNet5 and related hacks are still limited and probably cannot be maintained forever.

Oh btw, speaking of CnCNet... do you intend to even reimplement WOL or you let yourself to lean a bit and implement something closer to the CnCNet client infrastructure instead?
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CCHyper
Defense Minister


Joined: 07 Apr 2005

PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2016 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RedAlert++ does intend to be "pure" gameplay/logic wise, but the engine aims to be very modable by introducing features and systems that appear in later games (TS, RA2 and YR).

Some people seem to keep forgetting the reason why I started this project; To actually put a end to the years of research I have done on these C&C engines. It just so happens that Blade joined the team in the past few years and has allowed us to progress at a much faster rate that I could have dreamed of.

And to clarify, the reason why we are closed source currently, is due us (the team) wanting the source code to be as clear and correct as possible, heavily populated with comments, and with helpful documentation. There are parts of the engine we do not yet quite understand, and I think its very bad practice publish a project/source code until we do.


^Rampastein wrote:
If RA++ will be open source, it'll also give infinite freedom to modders (at least those who know C++), who can then add the new graphics, features, terrain etc. that they want to have.

I hope to have RedAlert++ to be modable on the level of what TS/RA2/YR is based on, making it very easy for existing modders to play around with our engine. Hopefully we can get to a point where pretty much everything is controlled by some INI option.


Graion Dilach wrote:
Speaking of CnCNet... do you intend to even reimplement WOL or you let yourself to lean a bit and implement something closer to the CnCNet client infrastructure instead?

It is the lowest of prioritys at the moment, but we will be looking to update the event driven system and impliment our service.

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Bittah Commander
Defense Minister


Joined: 21 May 2003
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkstorm wrote:
To be honest, OpenRA just doesn't invoke the same feel that Red Alert does. I don't know why, maybe it's something about the controls but it just feels slow and clunky.

I've been saying for a while now that vehicle movement in OpenRA looks similar to seeing units with a very high speed move around in TS with a low game speed. It currently just makes the game unpleasant to play.
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G-E
General


Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hah I couldn't put my finger on it, but the unit movement is definitely disturbing to me too Smile
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pchote
Cyborg Soldier


Joined: 06 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For what it's worth, that could be easily fixed if we knew how movement in the original games behaved.  Unfortunately nobody has been interested in researching or writing up a sufficiently detailed specification for how movement should work, so OpenRA's original movement implementation (which everyone agrees is a bit shit) is our only option.

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Iran
Cyborg Specialist


Joined: 23 Mar 2011

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

temp wrote:
Iran wrote:
Same reason people prefer playing OpenTTD to playing TTD with TTDPatch...having an open-source clone will allow for so many new features, better support for multiplayer, modding, mapping, help fix tons of bugs and do tons of other amazing stuff like improving AI and bringing the game to other devices.

I'm personally looking forward to RedAlert++


I searched the internet, OpenTTD gives new graphics, features, terrain and more ,while RA++ plan looks like it doesn't have any new feature just Bugfixes and crossplatform..

After TTDPatch already implemented new graphics, features, terrain etc. The CnCNet patch for Red Alert 1, 3.03p also adds these things to RA1. RedAlert++ would make adding even more features a lot easier, like adding support for adding new units.

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CCHyper
Defense Minister


Joined: 07 Apr 2005

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iran wrote:
temp wrote:
Iran wrote:
Same reason people prefer playing OpenTTD to playing TTD with TTDPatch...having an open-source clone will allow for so many new features, better support for multiplayer, modding, mapping, help fix tons of bugs and do tons of other amazing stuff like improving AI and bringing the game to other devices.

I'm personally looking forward to RedAlert++


I searched the internet, OpenTTD gives new graphics, features, terrain and more ,while RA++ plan looks like it doesn't have any new feature just Bugfixes and crossplatform..


After TTDPatch already implemented new graphics, features, terrain etc. The CnCNet patch for Red Alert 1, 3.03p also adds these things to RA1. RedAlert++ would make adding even more features a lot easier, like adding support for adding new units.


The funny thing is, that is very possible and already in RA++. By using the system Tiberian Sun uses (Find or Make) we can make the engine look up to see if the object listed is already defined (Red Alert objects are hardcoded) or create a new one. That way editing existing objects is easy and defining new ones is just as easy. Smile

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Iran
Cyborg Specialist


Joined: 23 Mar 2011

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I already added experimental support for adding new units to my patch. Problem is that a lot of stuff is hard-coded, for example turret offsets for naval units.

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Allen
Stealth Laser Trooper


Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Location: C:\Westwood\ TechLevel=12

PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iran wrote:
Well I already added experimental support for adding new units to my patch. Problem is that a lot of stuff is hard-coded, for example turret offsets for naval units.


If I where you (provided it is possible) I would just make a clone of every unit and building and let the new cloned units and buildings be hard-coded.
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Iran
Cyborg Specialist


Joined: 23 Mar 2011

PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a lot of special logic which makes this really, really hard to do via assembly patching. TS/RA2 are a lot easier as they have a lot less hard-coded logic.

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Blade
Tiberian Beast


Joined: 23 Dec 2003

PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OpenTTD in its initial release was pretty much a 1 to 1 replica of the original as far as I understand it, its only over time that additional features have been added. This is something that will probably happen somewhat organically to RA++ once it goes open source as it will then be open to contributions from others.

There are already a few little extensions in the RA++ code base, there is code for drawing a spacer between the tabs for example rather than it just being a black void and C&C style cloaking code has been written for land units rather than them using the same as subs.

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Allen
Stealth Laser Trooper


Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Location: C:\Westwood\ TechLevel=12

PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iran wrote:
There's a lot of special logic which makes this really, really hard to do via assembly patching. TS/RA2 are a lot easier as they have a lot less hard-coded logic.


I see.  Crying or Very sad

Blade wrote:
OpenTTD in its initial release was pretty much a 1 to 1 replica of the original as far as I understand it, its only over time that additional features have been added. This is something that will probably happen somewhat organically to RA++ once it goes open source as it will then be open to contributions from others.

There are already a few little extensions in the RA++ code base, there is code for drawing a spacer between the tabs for example rather than it just being a black void and C&C style cloaking code has been written for land units rather than them using the same as subs.


I would go ahead and fully code in all the needed C&C code into RA++ as well.
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Blade
Tiberian Beast


Joined: 23 Dec 2003

PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We do have an eye on how C&C and SS might be supported within the RA++ code base, but their support is very much a stretch goal currently and the final form they might take is undecided.

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Allen
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Joined: 13 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I said all I really didn't mean all code but I ment units, buildings and maybe side bar.
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