Project Perfect Mod Forums
:: Home :: Get Hosted :: PPM FAQ :: Forum FAQ :: Privacy Policy :: Search :: Memberlist :: Usergroups :: Register :: Profile :: Log in to check your private messages :: Log in ::


The time now is Thu Mar 28, 2024 9:26 pm
All times are UTC + 0
Naval Units
Moderators: Dawn of the Tiberium Age Staff
Post new topic   Reply to topic Page 1 of 1 [8 Posts] Mark the topic unread ::  View previous topic :: View next topic
Author Message
Einhander
Cyborg Soldier


Joined: 17 Apr 2014

PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:46 pm    Post subject:  Naval Units
Subject description: A review of the currently available naval units in DTA
Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello everyone,
I want to focus on some new inclusion to the Soviet naval forces. Specifically the new additions. Below I have outlined the current Soviet Navy, with my review below.

Soviet:
Submarine - A stealthy ship hunter that excels at sneak attacks an ambushes. Encountering a single sub when in unknown waters can prove disasterious to commanders. They are also armed with a surface cannon, but that should only be used in the most dire of circumstances.

Missile Sub - An incredibly frightening sight when they appear and launch their missiles. Perfect for hit and run tactics from great range, they can also be used in mass to siege targets. They are also adept at eliminating airborne threats, which make commanders think twice before sending a sortie of air units after them.

Sea Mines - Self detonating mobile explosives that utilize stealth in the open water. If deployed well Sea Mines can decimate an entire fleet well before an enemy can react. Perfect for bottle necks or generating an invisible wall around an otherwise open location.

Ekranoplan Aircraft Carrier - A Fast moving fortress of death. Not only can it accelerate to high speeds, it can also launch drones, and fire missiles to eliminate nearby foes. Commanders are careful to prevent one of these making berth off their coastline.

Project 941 - A behemoth of a submarine capable of launching a salvo of missiles that will deal terrible amounts of damage. Project 941 can launch torpedoes like its submarine counter part, but must be protected from enemy vessels due to its slow speed.

All:
Repair Ship - This vessel comes in many styles but they all serve the same purpose, to repair vessels out on open waters. If protected and near a fleet they can ensure a long term battle in even a protracted engagement of attrition.

Einhander's overview:
My opinion is that most of the naval units are very well balanced with the over all game play. However there are a few that seem out of sync with the rest.

The Soviet Ekranoplan Aircraft Carrier in my opinion is indeed overpowered when compared to the GDI Aircraft Carrier. The Ekranoplan not only can deploy drones (at a slightly shorter distance), but can move faster and attack close range targets with missiles comparable to the missile sub. These attributes make the requirements of an escort fleet pointless for such a unit. In my own testing I have had an Enkranoplan stand its ground against 3 Nod Scarabs and a Laser Corvette. Any other top tier naval unit that would attempt such an action at close range would be destroyed.

Art style wise:
The Ekranoplan and soviet repair ship unfortunately don't fit the same art style as the rest of the Soviet units. I'm not saying the art style is bad, to be honest I think the design is very well done and alluring. However the utilitarian style of the Soviet units clash with these new inclusions.
When I first encountered the new additions I honestly thought they looked like units one would see in Red Alert 3's faction the Empire of the Rising Sun. The style seemed similar to techno japanese vs. Soviet era mass production.

I understand that nit picking at an art style for a unit can be misconstrued as unfair criticism, but believe me when I say that it not my intention.

From my perspective instead of including a vessel that can be produced endlessly that is immensely powerful, I would have just buffed the Project 941 to make it a much more serious threat considering the player can only field one at a time.

Was there a considerable amount of feedback on the Soviet Naval units that required the addition of the Ekranoplan Aircraft Carrier?

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bittah Commander
Defense Minister


Joined: 21 May 2003
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I can see where you're coming from concerning the Ekranoplan's appearance, but it would be a waste to just get rid of it since LKO already took the effort to make it.
I think that for now I'll just nerf its missiles to be exactly like the Missile Sub's only with a burst of 1 instead of 2, but it might be an idea to give the Ekranoplan a build limit of 1 (or maybe 3) in the future to make it as special as it looks (it really doesn't look like a unit that should ever be mass-produced).

_________________

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail ModDB Profile ID YouTube User URL Facebook Profile URL
Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

When i made it, i actually thought about AA-missiles only.
The drones can do all the ground work.

A buildlimit of 3 to 5 sounds fine to me, though then soviets have again no mass producible capital ship. Which makes fighting 20-40 enemy cruiser or carrier plus escorts pretty hard with little glass cannon subs only.

_________________
SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection:  Nod buildings

Public SHPs
X-Mech Calendar (28 Mechs for GDI and Nod)
5 GDI, 5 Nod, 1 Mutant, 1 Scrin unit, 1 GDI building

Tools
Image Shaper______TMP Shop______C&C Executable Modifier

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TAK02
General


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Can't you have something akin to the Dreadnought in RA2 or Yuri's Boomer?

_________________
One and only developer of the Command & Conquer Dune "C&C D" mod.
m7 wrote:
I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done. #Tongue

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website ModDB Profile ID YouTube User URL Twitter Channel URL Skype Account
Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This is the tiberian sun engine.

_________________
SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection:  Nod buildings

Public SHPs
X-Mech Calendar (28 Mechs for GDI and Nod)
5 GDI, 5 Nod, 1 Mutant, 1 Scrin unit, 1 GDI building

Tools
Image Shaper______TMP Shop______C&C Executable Modifier

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TAK02
General


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You can have them spawn missiles that then explode in mid-air into several bits.
Or something. That is something that DeeZire, I believe, came up with for his mod, for the Red Oktober.
I have the code for it, but couldn't make sense of it.

_________________
One and only developer of the Command & Conquer Dune "C&C D" mod.
m7 wrote:
I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done. #Tongue

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website ModDB Profile ID YouTube User URL Twitter Channel URL Skype Account
Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Splits or Airburst logic has nothing to do with Spawner logic, which you first implied by mentioning dreadnaught/boomer.
And i mentioned this is the TS engine, because destroyable projectiles are not possible (like the carrier drones in DTA which can no be destroyed).

So right now i have no clue what you actually want to suggest here.

If you aren't aware, DTA has already a logic like this

for the GDI aircraft carrier and the soviet Ekranoplan.
Though with less bombs and instead multiple drones.

_________________
SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection:  Nod buildings

Public SHPs
X-Mech Calendar (28 Mechs for GDI and Nod)
5 GDI, 5 Nod, 1 Mutant, 1 Scrin unit, 1 GDI building

Tools
Image Shaper______TMP Shop______C&C Executable Modifier

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Einhander
Cyborg Soldier


Joined: 17 Apr 2014

PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Don't get me wrong, the Soviet Ekranoplan is a good ship. It's just a really good ship compared to the rest.

The problem I see here is that the Soviets have been pigeon holed into mostly submarine warfare vs. conventional open sea warfare. This makes countering various assaults difficult as the Soviet player has to be very careful about how they deploy their navy.

The Soviet Naval units are also fairly slow to the attack since they have to surface to fire. However I think I have 2 solutions for this.

What if the Soviet Submarine did not have to surface to fire?
Would this resolve their issue vs. other fleets? Many of the other fleets have the capacity to identify the submarines.

Or What if the Soviets were given a Destroyer? There is currently no class ship in DTA labeled as a Destroyer, however the ship itself would need to be balanced.

Then we have the issue were the Soviet Navy has way more naval units available to their disposal vs. the rest of the factions. Currently the Soviets have 2 extra units compared to the rest. Granted they have poor units such as the Sea mine, but they can be used effectively.

From my perspective the biggest issue the Soviets have to contend with is speed. There is a pause to fire their main sub units, which is a delay the other ships lack, they also cannot launch torpedoes through each other making mass fleets like other factions impossible for them. The key is how the game play unfolds.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Page 1 of 1 [8 Posts] Mark the topic unread ::  View previous topic :: View next topic
 
Share on TwitterShare on FacebookShare on Google+Share on DiggShare on RedditShare on PInterestShare on Del.icio.usShare on Stumble Upon
Quick Reply
Username:


If you are visually impaired or cannot otherwise answer the challenges below please contact the Administrator for help.


Write only two of the following words separated by a sharp: Brotherhood, unity, peace! 

 
You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group

[ Time: 0.1845s ][ Queries: 11 (0.0080s) ][ Debug on ]