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Kane's motives in TI
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Sirius007
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Joined: 17 Nov 2016

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:56 pm    Post subject:  Kane's motives in TI
Subject description: Is he still an Alien that wants to go home?
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What are Kane's motivations in your storyline?


Is he still a long-lost alien that wants to go back to his planet?

(I actually want that to be part of the storyline)

(It shows how insignificant the NOD-GDI conflict is to him)



Does Kane want to crush both GDI and GloboTech or just ensure that they don't interfere with his plans?

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Lin Kuei Ominae
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

there is no Kane anymore. Kane died/vanished at the end of the tiberian dawn story, before TI the story starts.
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Bu7loos
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@LKO: then who is the new mastermind ? there always has to be a mastermind doing things in the dark #Tongue

I have not played TI's story line so please enlighten me xD
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TAK02
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm pretty sure Kane still lives ("Rule of thumb, Hassan: You can't kill the Messiah!") and that we're being lied to/trolled by the entire TI-Staff, just to make his inevitable return ("Kane LIVES!!!") all the more epic #Tongue
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Nazgutack
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Joined: 19 Mar 2018

PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TAK02 wrote:
I'm pretty sure Kane still lives ("Rule of thumb, Hassan: You can't kill the Messiah!") and that we're being lied to/trolled by the entire TI-Staff, just to make his inevitable return ("Kane LIVES!!!") all the more epic #Tongue


I actually really hope so. Nod without Kane isn't quite the same, and his return would indeed potentially be quite epic.

I ALSO, however, hope that the TI staff doesn't try to detail who/what he is, I prefer his exact nature to be left mysterious. One of the few things I actually liked in C&C3 was that even the Scrin were perplexed and a little bit worried about just what the heck he is.

Also, I really wish TI had the capability to produce cutscenes...it's not too long ago I saw Joseph Kucan state that he'd love to play Kane again if he was offered the job.

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ErastusMercy
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Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Location: Birmingham, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He wasn't an alien according to ex-Westwood staff so he's not an alien here, plus the mystery surrounding Kane is part of the fun. His goal is to rule an artificially evolved humanity, what he and his followers view as perfect beings for a new world and Tiberium is the catalyst.

Transitional Conflicts (Early TI missions):  2009 -2019: Kane goes missing late 2019 when the Sarajevo temple is consumed by a Tiberium based detonation; the explosion has detrimental effects on the region. The Brotherhood is left in a state of anger and confusion, often falling to internal leadership challenges, planting the seeds for what would eventually become the Sons of Kane. GloboTech use this unexpected turn of events to conceal GDI’s efforts at rebuilding.

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TAK02
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Joined: 28 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ErastusMercy wrote:
Kane goes missing

Halflife 3 confirmed Cool

Oops, wrong franchise
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m7 wrote:
I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done. #Tongue
I once ninja'd MigEater #Tongue
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Nazgutack
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Joined: 19 Mar 2018

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ErastusMercy wrote:
He wasn't an alien according to ex-Westwood staff so he's not an alien here, plus the mystery surrounding Kane is part of the fun. His goal is to rule an artificially evolved humanity, what he and his followers view as perfect beings for a new world and Tiberium is the catalyst.


Glad to see a staff member share this view! I always hated how EA just completely ignored everything he had worked to accomplish to focus on their "ascension" idea.

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TAK02
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ErastusMercy wrote:
He wasn't an alien according to ex-Westwood staff so he's not an alien here, plus the mystery surrounding Kane is part of the fun. His goal is to rule an artificially evolved humanity, what he and his followers view as perfect beings for a new world and Tiberium is the catalyst.
So what Kane was trying to do in TD was overtaking/defeating GDI so he could work on his Tib-World-Altering-Missile to unite and 'perfect' humanity, which would instantly alert the Scrin and draw them in.

Sounds like TW *internal cringe*, with the main difference humans are united and just as Tiberium-resistant and -adaptable as the Scrin.

Am I right, so far?
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m7 wrote:
I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done. #Tongue
I once ninja'd MigEater #Tongue
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Nazgutack
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Joined: 19 Mar 2018

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who said anything about the Scrin? The idea of them being attracted by a tib explosion was dreamt up by EA as far as I'm aware. All we know  from TD and TS is that Kane allegedly foresaw the arrival of Tiberium, and that he is able to translate the Tacitus.

Many suspected that the Tacitus was alien in origin, but I don't remember it being explicitly stated until EA's TW. So I'd say that if we only go by what WW established, Kane's goal is exactly what Erastus said. I think WW did have plans to introduce aliens in the 3rd game, but what they would have ended up being like, and Kane's relationship with/knowledge of them, might have been totally different from what EA decided on.

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ErastusMercy
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Joined: 13 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be fair it was stated in the Westwood story bible that the Tacitus was of extra-terrestrial origin, it just wasn't of Scrin design.

If I remember correctly there were a race of Martians named the Hyksos, the Scrin exterminated them using Tiberium, but before they died they uploaded their vast knowledge into the Tacitus and sent it to primordial Earth.
In one draft the Tacitus was a soul-prison containing the essence of the Hyksos leadership. In another draft the Scrin viewed it as sacred and something called the Scrin Primal was on a quest to the recover the device.

That said, there was never any mention of Kane being an alien  (Brett Sperry also stated that Kane wasn't an alien) or of him using the World Altering Missile to lure the Scrin in. That angle from what I can tell was developed post Westwood, but it can easily be seen that way in retrospect due to the C&C3 Liquid-T plot.
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Sirius007
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Joined: 17 Nov 2016

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ErastusMercy wrote:
To be fair it was stated in the Westwood story bible that the Tacitus was of extra-terrestrial origin, it just wasn't of Scrin design.

If I remember correctly there were a race of Martians named the Hyksos, the Scrin exterminated them using Tiberium, but before they died they uploaded their vast knowledge into the Tacitus and sent it to primordial Earth.
In one draft the Tacitus was a soul-prison containing the essence of the Hyksos leadership. In another draft the Scrin viewed it as sacred and something called the Scrin Primal was on a quest to the recover the device.

That said, there was never any mention of Kane being an alien  (Brett Sperry also stated that Kane wasn't an alien) or of him using the World Altering Missile to lure the Scrin in. That angle from what I can tell was developed post Westwood, but it can easily be seen that way in retrospect due to the C&C3 Liquid-T plot.


Am I the only one that likes the fact that Kane is just an alien that wants to go home?


Kane may be immortal and very intelligent, but living with cavemen humans has negatively affected his sanity


You can have all the power in the world, but if you are still unhappy then you are still empty and powerless on the inside


I just kinda want Kane to still want to go home

(But not before eliminating GDI and making NOD top dog)


I wish TI would blend both the Westwood and EA versions of Kane

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Nazgutack
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Joined: 19 Mar 2018

PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ ErastusMercy: That does ring a bell now that you mention it tbh. I personally like the idea of the Tacitus being some sacred artifact the Scrin somehow lost. I kinda hate the soulprison idea, simply because introducing explicitly supernatural elements would completely alter the flavour and dynamic of the C&C universe, and make it a bit of a mess imo.

@Sirius007: My personal problem with this idea is that it sort of cheapens the whole conflict the games are based upon. In this case, Kane doesn't really actually care about defeating GDI, or for that matter about his Nod followers, they're all just distractions and tools in his scheme to just get the F outta dodge and leave the whole thing behind him. I REALLY dislike this angle, it makes everything...lamer I think, and it also makes a mess of why he was so fascinated with divination in the other games. If he doesn't give a damn about Earth's fate in the end, then his actions leading up to C&C3 make little sense.

Also, I think the idea that he is basically somewhat of a god, essentially responsible for the ENTIRETY of human history is absolutely stupid. For starters, why not unite humanity under him back when it woulda have been SO easy, instead of allowing us to slow down our own progress and ultimately his, with constant infighting, waves of religious fanatiscism to hold back technological progress which he needs, and less than optimal dividing of ressources since we are split into countries and empires each with their own individual agenda.

The way I see it, he arrived or was created or wherever he came from, some time in the 20th century. He rose through the Soviet empire and used it as a stepping stone for creating Nod, his true vision. If he was around before that, it would be apparent in human history somehow, as he would have used the additional time to build an empire to be ready for the arrival of tiberium. The more time he has to gain influence before it lands, the more easily he can monopolize it and fulfill his vision. If he'd been around for that long there is no way he would allow the UN to ever exist.

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TAK02
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Joined: 28 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nazgutack raises a valid point, but fails to remember the thing about Kane being around since the stone age (which I don't really believe in, but that's another topic for another day) was NEVER stated in any C&C game in existance. And I should know, I even watched C&C3's and KW's cutscenes. *nudge nudge* Wink

Also, if what ErastusMercy said is true, then what use was the Tib-missile? How does it fit into Kane's plan?
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m7 wrote:
I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done. #Tongue
I once ninja'd MigEater #Tongue
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Nazgutack
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't fail to remember a thing. But, whether it was stated in any game depends on whether you consider C&C 4 a C&C game I guess. I know I don't, but the quote comes from there, and I know some fans do consider it canon. I just personally dislike the concept and C&C 4 in its entirety.

I don't think there's a single person on these forums who hasn't seen every single cutscene in the entire franchise multiple times, so not much of a special trait 'round here I'd say.

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TAK02
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, please don't misunderstand me, I was merely hinting at the fact that the stone age-thing was what C&C4 introduced, and wasn't even alluded to beforehand (I never had TW, so I can't confirm this).
And considering the fans' stance towards that non-C&C game...
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m7 wrote:
I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done. #Tongue
I once ninja'd MigEater #Tongue
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Nazgutack
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is absolutely true.

There were allusions in Renegade to him actually BEING his namesake, Cain, but those were more clues that could be interpreted a number of ways.

Still, I prefer his exact nature remain a mystery for the sake of intrigue

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ErastusMercy
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TAK02 wrote:
Also, if what ErastusMercy said is true, then what use was the Tib-missile? How does it fit into Kane's plan?


The World Altering Missile was intended to transform the entire population of the planet into Kane's new Tiberium evolved humanity “Homo Sapiens Tiberius”. Renegades' Project Re-Genesis was the precursor to the Technology of Peace aka the World Altering Missile. Cyborgs appeared to be an offshoot of Nod's experiments to create these "perfect" beings. For example Petrova's divinated form was considered the closest to that goal at the time.

Here's a selection of quotes from Tiberian Sun:

Quote:
Kane: I’ve already won the fight, as we speak the Earth is transforming itself into a virgin paradise. An Eden awaiting the birth of a new race, a race of which you will be the newest member in a matter of hours.

Umagon: McNeil will come, he stopped your missiles he’ll stop you.

Kane: It’s time you saw the future, while you still have human eyes. I have concentrated enough Tiberium in this single warhead to convert the entire planet!

Umagon: You’ll never fire it.

Kane: You should prey that I do, I doubt there would be much of a life for a freak like you in GDI’s sanitised world. Prepare the patient for her final Tiberium enhancement, and let’s send a little welcoming party for her friends.

Quote:
Kane: This morning was the most glorious morning in the history of the earth. Peace is upon us. A gift to every man, woman and child from the The Brotherhood of Nod. Victory, not just for our people, but for our species. The time for questioning is over. Rising from our trenches, our bunkers, our factories, we must all now partake in the technology of peace. One purpose, one vision! Tiberium is the way and the life. Today the sun rises on the new world and a new people. The end is the beginning!

Quote:
Kane: You're only delaying the inevitable. I have the Tacitus. I am invincible. The Tacitus told me of Tiberium missiles, of invulnerable flying ships, of real-time genetic mutation. More than alien. More than human! The next step in our evolution as a species!

McNeil: You're not God Kane.

Kane: No, I'm not God but I'm a close second.


Nazgutack wrote:
There were allusions in Renegade to him actually BEING his namesake, Cain.


Yup, those allusions were also present in Tiberian Dawn the most blatant being seen during the credits, where there is an excavation team recovering an ancient tablet depicting the murder of Abel. The Soviet ending for RA1 is also rather blunt with its allusions to his identity.
Quote:
Nadia: For centuries we have waited to emerge from the shadows and now we shall make ourselves known. And Cain went out from the presence of the Lord and took up residence in the Land of Nod.



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