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Tornado Attack
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cxtian39
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Joined: 11 Feb 2016
Location: United States

PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 1:36 am    Post subject:  Tornado Attack Reply with quote

Double fan attack #Mad


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PussyPus
Commander


Joined: 14 Jul 2015
Location: Underground Clone City

PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about, a BIG tornado anim? i know everyone will want it after this
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Mig Eater
Defense Minister


Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: Eindhoven

PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could be used as a reverse Magnetron that pushes units away.
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cxtian39
Commander


Joined: 11 Feb 2016
Location: United States

PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PussyPus wrote:
What about, a BIG tornado anim? i know everyone will want it after this
I want it, too Very Happy
Mig Eater wrote:
Could be used as a reverse Magnetron that pushes units away.
Is that possible? I thought they could only bring units closer
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Mig Eater
Defense Minister


Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: Eindhoven

PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never tried myself but I vaguely remember reading about a reverse mag beam somewhere. Maybe it was just a request for Ares...
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4StarGeneral
General


Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Constant Flux

PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The visual wave direction can be reversed, not the pull though.

EDIT: Though now that I think of it, one of those inviso-missile-with-InitialPayload tricks could probably do it.
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would be nice with some lighting/shadowing to give it more visual depth.
Some noise effect to give single particles a slightly different color would be good too, so you can see the inner movement.

Right now it's pretty much a single grey color only, with movement visible at the end only.
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Speeder
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Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Location: Czechia

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very nice!
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kenosis
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Joined: 19 Aug 2009
Location: Moscow State University

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

missile wont work good. Trust me.
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silverwind
Grenadier


Joined: 11 Jun 2016

PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this would work well with the Rocker effect, especially with the way the game animates flipping over tanks, would look just fine with this animation.

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you would have to make sure the rocker effect warhead explodes slightly before it actually hits the target, so the direction of the flipping over is correct.

I'm not sure Ares allows such a logic, that a projectile explodes slightly before it hits exactly (Proximity=yes would still hit exactly if target stands still).
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kenosis
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Joined: 19 Aug 2009
Location: Moscow State University

PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DONT THINK. TAKE A TRY.
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cxtian39
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Joined: 11 Feb 2016
Location: United States

PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How to get rid of transparent pixels blending the background

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cxtian39 wrote:
How to get rid of transparent pixels blending the background

On this anim or in general when creating new anims?
Can't see anything wrong with this one in the preview images.

Image Shaper has the option to declare colors "make transparent", so if you have a black background, you can set all dark greys to "make transparent" and thus remove most of the outline.
Other than that, you can only change your render settings and/or materials to make sure you get a sharp border. In 3dsmax you also have the option "don't anti-aliase against background", which works only on non-transparent materials.
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PussyPus
Commander


Joined: 14 Jul 2015
Location: Underground Clone City

PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any new thing about the reverse mag beam?
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cxtian39
Commander


Joined: 11 Feb 2016
Location: United States

PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
cxtian39 wrote:
How to get rid of transparent pixels blending the background

On this anim or in general when creating new anims?
Can't see anything wrong with this one in the preview images.

Image Shaper has the option to declare colors "make transparent", so if you have a black background, you can set all dark greys to "make transparent" and thus remove most of the outline.
Other than that, you can only change your render settings and/or materials to make sure you get a sharp border. In 3dsmax you also have the option "don't anti-aliase against background", which works only on non-transparent materials.
The particle system generates pixels with some level of transparency regardless whether AA is on/off. Even I turn AA off it still blends the background. I can choose a "compatible" background to make it not very noticeable like black bg for grey cyclone but I don't think that's a solution.
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

particle system in 3dsmax? Which one?
I almost always use the Particle Flow (PF Source) which is the most customizable. On this one you can set any shape as particle, either simple default ones (sphere, tetraeder, cube) or your own mesh, and you can set any material you want.

In this case for example, i would have used a material which has on the diffuse channel a "Particle Age" map, which in turn is set so the particles change a bit their color over time.
This way making the vortex brighter (almost white) at the start and turn slightly darker (grey) near the end.
Using randomize particle age, on the material setup in the PF Source, the particles would get a bit more random color and with a slight Divergence on the Speed modifier, there would be also random particles moving slightly outside the vortex (yours is a bit too artificial straight, like the particles moving along a fixed rail)
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NimoStar
Gauss Rifle Trooper


Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Location: Buenos Aires

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

way so a rocker warhead "explodes" before hitting:

Use arcing = yes and a long range (7 or more) dont use High or veryhigh on projectile. The projectile will hit the ground at approximately 6 tiles. Use something like this as minimum range (compromise so it works correctly graphically wise), and max range of like 7. Use Cellspread greater than 1.
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cxtian39
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Joined: 11 Feb 2016
Location: United States

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NimoStar wrote:
way so a rocker warhead "explodes" before hitting:

Use arcing = yes and a long range (7 or more) dont use High or veryhigh on projectile. The projectile will hit the ground at approximately 6 tiles. Use something like this as minimum range (compromise so it works correctly graphically wise), and max range of like 7. Use Cellspread greater than 1.
Can just make the firing anim carry a rocker weapon
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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello.
Implementation of premature detonation is easily possible using ProjectileRange combined with a MinimumRange minimally in excess of ProjectileRange. However, problem arises as Rocker will affect a circular area, meaning anything in the intervening cells will be rocked in the opposite direction if it is within the spread. Furthermore, if the weapon is given a short ProjectileRange, meaning that there will be no intervening units, then unless for spread that limits it to a very short range also, the spread of the warhead must be so large in order to affect things at the intended range that it will affect other objects around the unit also.
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cxtian39
Commander


Joined: 11 Feb 2016
Location: United States

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay I'm not using this. It's quite large visual flaw that firing anim doesn't turn when the unit turns.

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NimoStar
Gauss Rifle Trooper


Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Location: Buenos Aires

PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Can just make the firing anim carry a rocker weapon


I don't think that would work... plus anim damage is continous, not one-time damage. Also what the Mao guy said, it will rock everything and not just the target if done this way.

What about invisible particles (like flamethrower) with a Rocker warhead? Worth trying?
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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NimoStar wrote:
Quote:
Can just make the firing anim carry a rocker weapon


I don't think that would work... plus anim damage is continous, not one-time damage. Also what the Mao guy said, it will rock everything and not just the target if done this way.

What about invisible particles (like flamethrower) with a Rocker warhead? Worth trying?


In principle, to my knowledge, no. "Rocker" is not applied by particle warheads. If it were applied, there still would be no way for the game to know the direction of the rocking effect, since particle warheads have no "epicentre" outside the point of contact with the unit itself. However, this is all hypothetical: if someone were to make "Rocker" be applied by particles, then they would solve this issue as well. As it stands, however, this is not possible method of solution.

cxtian39 wrote:
Okay I'm not using this. It's quite large visual flaw that firing anim doesn't turn when the unit turns.


A remark on this, other issues with usability aside:
This is never a property that depends on the content of just single SHP file, except when used in a particle system (look at "FIRESTREAM" (I think?), used in TS for the Devil's Tongue and unused in RA2/YR, and "FLAMTHRO", unused in either game to see a single SHP having a setup suitable for alternate facings). If you want to use facing-specific Anims, then the way to do this can be gleaned from weapons that in their Anim setting list several entries named "MGUN-*", where "*" is replaced with a one- or two-letter suffix indicating the cardinal direction (although the suffix itself is inconsequential for the engine's decision which animation to use for which facing). In order to show different animations depending upon the unit's facing, different animations have to be present, and the animation posted here can serve as basis to create copies of it with different facings, but cannot in itself be used to fulfill this role without this further step.


Struck out in response to LKO's correction!
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Last edited by Millennium on Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:40 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Millennium wrote:
A remark on this, other issues with usability aside:
This is never a property that depends on the content of just single SHP file, except when used in a particle system (look at "FIRESTREAM" (I think?), used in TS for the Devil's Tongue and unused in RA2/YR, and "FLAMTHRO", unused in either game to see a single SHP having a setup suitable for alternate facings). If you want to use facing-specific Anims, then the way to do this can be gleaned from weapons that in their Anim setting list several entries named "MGUN-*", where "*" is replaced with a one- or two-letter suffix indicating the cardinal direction (although the suffix itself is inconsequential for the engine's decision which animation to use for which facing). In order to show different animations depending upon the unit's facing, different animations have to be present, and the animation posted here can serve as basis to create copies of it with different facings, but cannot in itself be used to fulfill this role without this further step.

look at the first post. He made the anim already with 8 facings.
What cxtian39 means is, that once the anim starts playing, it would not turn if the unit turns. The anim would end playing in the fired direction and only change the facing the next time the weapon is fired.
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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right.
That is indeed irresolvable.
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cxtian39
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Joined: 11 Feb 2016
Location: United States

PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drawing those cyclones into the attack sequence of the shp unit will solve it

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This can be problematic too.
The anim would instantly stop/disappear, when the unit has to rotate while it plays.
Firinganims stop/reset as soon as the unit moves/rotates.
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cxtian39
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Joined: 11 Feb 2016
Location: United States

PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
This can be problematic too.
The anim would instantly stop/disappear, when the unit has to rotate while it plays.
Firinganims stop/reset as soon as the unit moves/rotates.
OpportunityFire=yes can fix that as it can also fire while moving
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NimoStar
Gauss Rifle Trooper


Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Location: Buenos Aires

PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed cxtian practically resolved that.

Plus, the damage can still be an invisible particle that way,

you can also align it with FLH so it looks correctly aligned to the unit's voxel/shp weapon.
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Last edited by NimoStar on Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:56 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cxtian39 wrote:
Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
This can be problematic too.
The anim would instantly stop/disappear, when the unit has to rotate while it plays.
Firinganims stop/reset as soon as the unit moves/rotates.
OpportunityFire=yes can fix that as it can also fire while moving

Are you sure? Can you show an ingame gif?
If they haven't drastically changed the SHP drawing/render logic in RA2, i would say it's still like in TS.
When a unit rotates/moves, the rendered frame index is reset to the first frame of whatever animation it has to play (the walkanim in this case). If it played a firinganim, it then has to switch to the first frame of a walkanim, thus immediately stopping/replacing the firinganim.

I doubt a key like OpportunityFire, which is a simple rules.ini key, changes anything on the SHP render behaviour. Especially since that key is mainly used for turreted units or OmniFire units only.
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NimoStar
Gauss Rifle Trooper


Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Location: Buenos Aires

PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
When a unit rotates/moves, the rendered frame index is reset to the first frame of whatever animation it has to play (the walkanim in this case


V O X E L S

Is there a way for a unit to have a voxel body and a SHP turret?

Buildings have separately controlled turrets, SHP buildings can have voxel turrets, so the logic is basically there.

Other way: A muzzle anim, but the unit has to be deployed to fire it (IsSimpleDeployer logic, like the TS Nod artillery... RIP nerfed in firestorm)
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cxtian39
Commander


Joined: 11 Feb 2016
Location: United States

PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
cxtian39 wrote:
Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
This can be problematic too.
The anim would instantly stop/disappear, when the unit has to rotate while it plays.
Firinganims stop/reset as soon as the unit moves/rotates.
OpportunityFire=yes can fix that as it can also fire while moving

Are you sure? Can you show an ingame gif?
If they haven't drastically changed the SHP drawing/render logic in RA2, i would say it's still like in TS.
When a unit rotates/moves, the rendered frame index is reset to the first frame of whatever animation it has to play (the walkanim in this case). If it played a firinganim, it then has to switch to the first frame of a walkanim, thus immediately stopping/replacing the firinganim.

I doubt a key like OpportunityFire, which is a simple rules.ini key, changes anything on the SHP render behaviour. Especially since that key is mainly used for turreted units or OmniFire units only.
I don't think it relates to SHP drawing. It's just that attack state isn't interrupted so is its anim.


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