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Tiberian Sun: Reborn's Mammoth MKII's new look!
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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:17 am    Post subject:  Tiberian Sun: Reborn's Mammoth MKII's new look!
Subject description: There will be no mercy against the terrorists of the Brotherhood of Nod.
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The crew over Tiberian Sun: Reborn have recently posted an update with the new look of their Mammoth Mark II and some other bots as well. As a first-person shooter game, bringing the Tiberian Sun atmosphere to the Renegade engine, you'll be able to drive these beasts. And that must be fun, isn't it?

Here's a family photo:



And a solo one, showing the beast moving in 3Ds Max:




Their whole news post, showing up more goodies than the ones above is available at their forums on W3D Hub. I don't know if we will be able to drive this little guy in a low term since it is a very complex project to develop. Anyway, if you've got interested in this project, head to their Official Forums for more information.

Key Words: #News #Renegade #TiberianSunReborn 

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The models look great.

I don't think i like the walk anim though. Looks way too bouncy and lightweight for a multi-ton super heavy walker.
An elephant gait would fit better imo, even though it would require a quite slower movement speed.
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djohe
Cyborg Informer


Joined: 07 May 2006
Location: Sweden, Gothenburg

PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
The models look great.

I don't think i like the walk anim though. Looks way too bouncy and lightweight for a multi-ton super heavy walker.
An elephant gait would fit better imo, even though it would require a quite slower movement speed.
I agree that walk animation looks wrong compared to the 2 videos of it, beside that it looks pretty good but it is little hard to tell. Not 100% sure but looks slightly off to me compared to http://www.cybergooch.com/pages/tibsunarchive/mkii.htm and the MK.II destruction video but mabe I am just imagining things.
PS: I like how you LKO have the avatar of a Mammoth Mk.II and posts on news related to it

Last edited by djohe on Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:50 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only a few small issues from what i can see:
-the upper leg seems to be a tad long
and that square plate on the side of the knee should be attached to the lower leg, not the upper leg.
-the front section looks a tad long (one small armor plate shorter might be better)
-the bottom of the front section should be askew. if you look at the metal panels below the 17, they are higher under the 17 than further to the front. I think this gives the Reborn MMKII that slightly boxy look.
-if you look at the original, the gold part in front of the grey metal panel is also higher than it is long, while on the Reborn the gold part is way longer than it is high.
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Team Black
Defense Minister


Joined: 25 Sep 2006
Location: Teamblackistan Posts: Over 9000

PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see - the legs like to extend once they hit the ground, which makes the bounce. That part of it does look unnatural.

Some trivia: the original Star Wars AT-AT animators actually looked at elephants to get tips on how to work the legs
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G-E
General


Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A heavy legged vehicle such as this would try to coordinate the walking to minimize vertical jounce. Seriously with that much movement everyone would be seasick in 5min inside, and probably throwing up all over the controls.
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it would be no problem to make the cockpit steady as a rock, but i guess it wouldn't look that well.

When i made the Star Wars mechs looong ago, people complained about the non-moving ATAT body


btw, this would be a good example for an elephant walk gait, having always 3 legs firmly on the ground.
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Crimsonum
Seth


Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Location: Fineland

PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Such close examination of a vehicle that cannot even turn around.
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Mechacaseal
AA Infantry


Joined: 29 Aug 2015

PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Their textures are trash. The model is very low detail with various square polygons attempting to represent detail. It' looks like a stupid ATAT. We need some real artists up in here.

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G-E
General


Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
When i made the Star Wars mechs looong ago, people complained about the non-moving ATAT body


btw, this would be a good example for an elephant walk gait, having always 3 legs firmly on the ground.

A sideways sway in the gait would make it less fixed in space, without looking like a bobblehead.
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EVA-251
General


Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Location: Michigan

PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mechacaseal wrote:
Their textures are trash. The model is very low detail with various square polygons attempting to represent detail. It' looks like a stupid ATAT. We need some real artists up in here.

It's not the model quality. I did this 7 years ago on a whim. That's DarkPlaces Quake (IE a sourceport of the original Quake 1). I used the old APB mammoth model, ported it to MD3, made a shitty bumpmap in 5 minutes, put that on the turret. Two dynamic lights to cast the shadows, and done. Wouldn't say it looks great, but it's not awful.

The Renegade engine projects are what happens when you take relatively high quality models and put them in an engine that uses lighting techniques that were in vogue....20 years ago. Models look flat and undetailed. Artists have to prebake details into the texture that would otherwise be handled by the lighting system, etc etc...
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One Winged Angel
Vehicle Driver


Joined: 03 Sep 2007

PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
Only a few small issues from what i can see:
-the upper leg seems to be a tad long
and that square plate on the side of the knee should be attached to the lower leg, not the upper leg.
-the front section looks a tad long (one small armor plate shorter might be better)
-the bottom of the front section should be askew. if you look at the metal panels below the 17, they are higher under the 17 than further to the front. I think this gives the Reborn MMKII that slightly boxy look.
-if you look at the original, the gold part in front of the grey metal panel is also higher than it is long, while on the Reborn the gold part is way longer than it is high.


Thanks for this feedback! It really pointed out a couple of good things that can easily be fixed.

- I can't really do much about the leg length at this stage, but I have correctly reattached the square plate to the lower leg
- I have reduced the length of the front overall and will be scaling up the chin-gun, to scale it as it is done correctly in the cutscenes
- It's a bit too much work to skew the front at this stage
- I'm not sure about where you mean with the gold part

In regards to the animation, I can certainly have a go at making it bob and sway less to see if I can get it to look a bit more stable.

Keep an eye out for our update on Thursday to see the final results!

Cheers guys!
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

attached some images of my model which i think comes pretty close to the original MMKII (i've added a few additional smaller details but main shape should match).
Images are 800x600 (right click open image to view full size)

a bigger version of my avatar, showing the walkcycle (maybe it helps)
though i'm not that fond of it myself, as the duration before the rear leg touches the ground and the front leg left the ground is too long. It would fall to the side in those few frames.
The front leg should leave the ground and immediately followed by the rear leg touching the ground.

concerning the gold part, see attached image with notes

\Edit
out of interest, can you use 3ds max inverse kinetics (IK HI solver) to animate legs or do you had set key frames and animate each part of the leg separately?


mmkii_side_notes.png
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Mechacaseal
AA Infantry


Joined: 29 Aug 2015

PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meh.

Last edited by Mechacaseal on Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:52 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can someone ban already this useless troll?
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Mechacaseal
AA Infantry


Joined: 29 Aug 2015

PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meh.


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Last edited by Mechacaseal on Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:52 pm; edited 1 time in total

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TAK02
Commander


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AAAAH! MY EYES! BLEACH!

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One Winged Angel
Vehicle Driver


Joined: 03 Sep 2007

PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
attached some images of my model which i think comes pretty close to the original MMKII (i've added a few additional smaller details but main shape should match).
Images are 800x600 (right click open image to view full size)

a bigger version of my avatar, showing the walkcycle (maybe it helps)
though i'm not that fond of it myself, as the duration before the rear leg touches the ground and the front leg left the ground is too long. It would fall to the side in those few frames.
The front leg should leave the ground and immediately followed by the rear leg touching the ground.

concerning the gold part, see attached image with notes

\Edit
out of interest, can you use 3ds max inverse kinetics (IK HI solver) to animate legs or do you had set key frames and animate each part of the leg separately?


Thanks for taking the time to put this post together. I appreciate it!

I have adjusted the animation and reduced the length of the front now, so I'll put together a video when I get some time. It looks a lot more stable now though, which is good.

I'm planning on reducing the size of the grey panel next, in order to allow some of the main chassis to come through, although that probably won't be as much as what you've got on your model, because it's a bit too much work to alter the UVs at this stage.

We're using CAT Rigging and IK solvers in 3DS Max in order to control the animation of the walk cycle. The Renegade X team gave us a hand with the rig and animation work, so I'm just adding polish to it now. I'm fairly happy with how it's come out personally.

Cheers again for the feedback!
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mechacaseal wrote:
Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
Can someone ban already this useless troll?

Not the validation you were looking for i presume? Even The Mastodon looks better. And here you are discussing the shape of its ass.

1. we are discussing the MMKII, not the mastodon. topic failed.
2. i pointed out the end of the railgun. not the back of Reborn's mammoth, which isn't visible in any of the images above.
3. your image is useless as all of your comments
4. you again derailed a topic
5. you again failed to give constructive criticism
6. you again failed to discuss things in a polite manner

(7.) and i want you to remember that post of yours that was already deleted from this topic, which showed your usual foul manners
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Mechacaseal
AA Infantry


Joined: 29 Aug 2015

PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meh.

Last edited by Mechacaseal on Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:52 pm; edited 1 time in total

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TAK02
Commander


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If that's the case, then why don't you go ahead and be the better man (or woman) and a role-model and actually STAY on-topic when others clearly don't?

That, and last I chked, you were the one who derailed your own (and others') topics. The others simply jumped on the wagon with you when you jumped.

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Mechacaseal
AA Infantry


Joined: 29 Aug 2015

PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meh.

Last edited by Mechacaseal on Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:52 pm; edited 1 time in total

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TAK02
Commander


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mechacaseal wrote:
TAK02 wrote:
If that's the case, then why don't you go ahead and be the better man (or woman) and a role-model and actually STAY on-topic when others clearly don't?

That, and last I chked, you were the one who derailed your own (and others') topics. The others simply jumped on the wagon with you when you jumped.


True I guess. But the C&C reborn MKII doesn't need to look exactly like Tiberian Sun's. If it looks better than the original then it's a improvement. Odds are no one is gonig to downlaod reborn just to see the mammoth mkii shorter neck or walking animation. Now maybe someone will but odds are they wont notice the change. Cause no one plays it. Even with bots. Arguably a waste of time and energy but so is arguing with someone on this forum. Lin makes sure I notice him so yes the guinea pig was to make him notice me.

Fair enough. Do try to be less hostile to each other tho folks, we're all followers of Kane's vision here.

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Mechacaseal
AA Infantry


Joined: 29 Aug 2015

PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meh.

Last edited by Mechacaseal on Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:51 pm; edited 1 time in total

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McPwny
Cyborg Soldier


Joined: 29 Jan 2018

PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what literally even is this thread?

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Serial_Rapist
Guest




PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@McPwny Autistic passive aggressive nerds busy NOT playing W3D Hub.

All of you go play W3D Hub now: https://w3dhub.com/#/home

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