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Command & Conquer Remastered Gameplay Teaser and Website
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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:32 pm    Post subject:  Command & Conquer Remastered Gameplay Teaser and Website
Subject description: We've got a present for ya!
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It has been one year since Jim Vessella, EA producer, has announced that they would remaster Command & Conquer Tiberian Dawn and Red Alert 1 and, today, they have brought some interesting news. As the title of our news says, it has a gameplay teaser (see below) and these games now have an Official Website of Command & Conquer Remastered.

Here's Jim's words on it:

Quote:
Fellow Command & Conquer fans,

Crazy to believe it’s nearly been one year since we formally announced the C&C Remaster and began development with Petroglyph Games and Lemon Sky Studios. To celebrate this milestone, today we’re excited to showcase one of our biggest reveals on the journey so far - a first teaser of the game in action!

And with this teaser comes an answer to one of your key questions from the past year:

  • “Is the Remaster going to be in 2D or 3D?”


We’re ready to share the Remaster has been developed in the classic 2D visual style, unlocking our ability to stay as authentic as possible to the original games. Below we’d like to provide more details on how we’re approaching these visuals, and why we felt the 2D style was the best fit for the project.

As you may remember from one of the first posts, our plan is to remaster (not remake) the classic games. Creatively, this means our guiding light has always been to remain authentic to the original feel, and we’re constantly on the lookout for ways to achieve that goal. When we recovered the source code to C&C Tiberian Dawn and C&C Red Alert, this gave us a viable avenue to accurately match the core gameplay, feel, and signature look of the legacy titles. We felt the 2D style was the best way to bring all these elements together, and ultimately achieve the authenticity we were looking for.

It’s been wonderful to see the passionate, artistic care taken by Lemon Sky and the team with this creative approach. Lemon Sky has re-concepted, re-modeled, and re-animated every gameplay asset from scratch - examples of which you’ve seen with the Construction Yard and Tesla Tank. Once it reaches the final stage as seen in those previews, we render and export the assets in 2D so they lineup frame for frame with the original visuals. In some cases like the Grenadier, this can mean over 600 frames for a single unit. This creative process has allowed us to modernize the game assets as you originally imagined them, and stay true to the gameplay you’ve known and loved for 25 years.

In addition to the authenticity, we’re excited to reveal an extra benefit of this 2D approach is that Petroglyph has been able to utilize their deep familiarity with the source code to enable the real-time switching of Legacy / Remastered graphics in Campaign missions. This means at any time when playing a Campaign mission, you can tap a single key to smoothly toggle between the original assets at 320 x 200, to the Remastered assets up to 3840 x 2160. Playing with this toggle over the past several months has been a true joy, and we believe will be one of your favorite features in the Remaster. Along with the real-time toggling, you’ll have the ability to zoom the camera to take in all the high definition detail, with an effective zoom distance between the DOS and C&C Gold camera heights.

You can see an example of these features in action in the associated video above (just in case you made it this far and haven’t watched it already). To get an even better feel for the visual difference, we encourage you to visit our new website site at:

https://www.ea.com/games/command-and-conquer/command-and-conquer-remastered

Here you can use an interactive component to see the Legacy / Remastered visuals playing side by side. Keep in mind some of the assets you’re seeing in these videos are still in progress (I’m looking at you, Tiberium Silo), as we’re continuing to fix bugs and polish items based on feedback from our colleagues, the Community Council, and all of you.

We’re eager to hear your thoughts on everything you’re seeing in this post, so please share your comments in the thread below. Thanks for your support and participation, and looking forward to sharing more game assets in the months ahead.

Cheers,

Jim Vessella

Jimtern








In one of Jim's responses at Reddit, he has confirmed that you'll be able to select different zoom levels, as seen in the trailer above.

So, I've tried to peak that idea and some random expressions of his text such as "2D", "recovered the source code to C&C Tiberian Dawn and C&C Red Alert" and... I have a good feeling that these games will have a good chance of being moddable. But that's speculation from my side so far.  Of course, it would come with a cost: you'd probably have to make the frames for each zoom level of these units, I guess. I am not sure about that, but at least a "low quality" and a "4k quality" will be required.

What do you guys and ladies think? Share your comments in a response to this topic.

(PS: Thanks to Plokite Wolf from CNCNZ.com for the YouTube version of the video above.)

Key Words: #News #CommandAndConquer #CommandAndConquerRemastered #RedAlert1Remastered 

Last edited by Banshee on Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:15 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tbh i expected the graphics to be better. They have that nonuniform design to them, like dark and gritty textures and lighting on the conyard and refinery, but smooth and bright textures on the other buildings.

I like that now everything is in proper isometric view, but the details on the vehicles could be better as well. Would have expected a properly detailed Nod M2 Bradley and M1A1. On the other hand those stay pretty close to the original and i guess with realistic graphics, people might have said they didn't stay true to the original unit art.

Many of the graphics have the AI upscaled image style to them (with smooth surfaces where the neural network had no info on how to give it a detailed texture), not like a true remake and render from a more detailed 3D model.

The infantry (de)acceleration looks a bit strange.

The explosions could use an alpha channel to look like all those photoshopped beta screenshots we got for TS and RA2.


Right now i would say it's an awesome job if it would've been done by a modder in his free time, but pretty simple for a company working full time on it.
The graphic quality of ReWire is definitely better than that.
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Mig Eater
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Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: Eindhoven

PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah feeling a bit underwhelmed by the graphics overall. With all the extra details they added to the buildings I was hoping they would do the same for the units & terrain but as LKO said they look like they have just been upscaled.
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I would have expected something like the old FMV quality now used as ingame art. (or the HQ models used for the FMVs now as ingame assets)

What i definitely like though are the small details that made TD unique.
-tanks firing inaccurate/overshooting on infantry
-buildings showing the 3rd damage state before destroyed
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Last edited by Lin Kuei Ominae on Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:29 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with you guys. I hope the vehicles and infantry are just work in progress.

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MadHQ
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Joined: 07 Nov 2003

PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why is it that I almost always see things differently than people here.

I am really excited by why I see here!

I am really glad to see this is 2d!

I think the gfxs look great!

My hopes is this will run on Linux... Fingers crossed!

If it does run on linux and mod-able or have a map editor I may really get involved with this game.  Razz

This kind of made my day.  Razz

I do think the GFX's are temp-ish or WIP. Look at the silo's dome, it looks like there is remap pixels on the dome.
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CCHyper
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Joined: 07 Apr 2005

PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MadHQ wrote:
If it does run on linux and mod-able or have a map editor I may really get involved with this game.


The Remasters are using the bulk of the GlyphX engine, with the original source code bolted in. If they don't support Wine out of the box, then a more current game using the GlyphX engine, 8-Bit Armies, has a Platinum rating for running it under Wine: https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=18455

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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@CCHyper: Do you think that they will use encrypted .meg file to store things like files that do the same kind of function as a rules.ini does? In 8-Bit Armies, Grey Goo, End of Nations and few other games they did that, unfortunately. Most of the other .meg files had no protection.

@MadHQ: What they showed so far looks interesting... especially if they follow the same kind of design and effort that they are doing to the buildings. I'm particularly divided regarding the infantry. I like the new details they've added. It is awesome, but there is something on the shading they are using that makes it look cartoony.

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Holy_Master
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Joined: 21 Jul 2004
Location: Thailand

PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look ok i guess.. only disappoint is lack of animation on building and crumble animation also underwhelming explosion effect. and it's quite surprise they manage to make 1:1 replica on building and units . I assume instead of make new model they decide to photoshop each frame one by one instead which might explain why it's so slow to make XD.

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CCHyper
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Joined: 07 Apr 2005

PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Banshee wrote:
@CCHyper: Do you think that they will use encrypted .meg file to store things like files that do the same kind of function as a rules.ini does? In 8-Bit Armies, Grey Goo, End of Nations and few other games they did that, unfortunately. Most of the other .meg files had no protection.


I would think that if Petroglyph has used their own archive format for recent games with encryption, I don't see why they wouldn't for the Remasters. Maybe we are lucky and they keep the same encryption as 8-Bit and Grey Goo.

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raminator
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Location: Bierkasten

PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

this looks amazing!!!
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Aro
Alcohol Fueled


Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Location: Birmingham, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everything that has been showcased and announced for the remasters so far resonates perfectly with me, the remastered music, interface and graphics (aside from the guard tower which begs to look like something other than a science class tripod), it's all perfect. Sure, the graphics aren't groundbreaking or anything, but they're still wonderfully in-keeping with the source material while still looking fresh.  My only worry is that the games stay too true to the originals to the point where all of the flaws are also maintained, namely how useless infantry are.

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Mechacaseal
AA Infantry


Joined: 29 Aug 2015

PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I figured they'd be copying the starcraft remaster. I bet they wont add any quality of life changes either like building more than one unit at a time or waypoints or attack move. I wonder if OpenRA will rip all the assets. I'm sure EA wouldn't like that tho. Hopefully this makes multiplayer on official EA servers possible again. Unless it's the same gameplay then I'll just stick to my modern RTS games.

Things This Game Needs:
Hold shift to select more units
Attack move with automatic priority threat targeting
build queue
Aircraft taking turns to reload
Waypoints

Basically OpenRA but with the spirit of cncnet hosted by EA.

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raminator
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

+ select all units on screen
+ select all units of the same type
+ laz0r T-Rux
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Damfoos
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Joined: 27 Mar 2016

PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For someone who never played the original TD it looks like a Flash game xD

Seriously, the looks match the original, even vehicles look as weird as they do in the original (flat, stange turret offsets, weird perspective), but the explosions feel cardboard, they don't even cast flashes on targets they hit, like in RA2 and (might be wrong here because I don't remember exactly) TS which makes them look flat and cheap. Just like in the original game yes, but back then it probably was like that because of the engine limitations, and explosions couldn't be more realistic, now they could've implemented more complex explosion effects, yet they stick to the original "style".

The terrain also looks strange: it can have a 8K texture for all its worth, but will still feel empty and flat, because the scale has changed: in the original the terrain was pixelated, but tanks and everything else was pixelated too, "details" of the grass were just as large as "details" on other textures, so the scale was consistent and there was some fake depth in the textures. There were less pixels per each tile, but here you can clearly see how empty and flat the grass actually is, because now each tile is bigger, yet the grass "details" are smaller. It's like when someone makes HD textures for early 3d games, so you can enjoy photorealistic face textures on heads that have only 3 polygons as a face - it doesn't make it look better, quite the opposite.

As for the structures, I do agree the CY looks the most "remastered" of them all, while HoN for example feels like an upscale of the original art, with less contrast than the CY and less design changes. I have a feeling their goal was to make the visuals look exactly the same but have additional details if you zoom in, and that's about it. Not sure how I feel about this, I don't feel nostalgic about the game I didn't play so this style is not appealing, the mockup screenshot made by Gangster looked better imo.

I wish TI team will actually complete their reimagined TD assets, I liked their version of TD more #Tongue

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Holy_Master
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

+ Full Controller support (Consider the game control is very simple)
+ Release on Steam

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secondwtq
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Joined: 26 Jun 2010
Location: China

PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also being a Linux user, I think maybe OpenRA can build some support for its package files (if as Banshee said, the assets are unencrypted ... and, I'd like the contribute the code), like the TS/RA2 mods.

Then you just buy the game, copy the archives, launch OpenRA. And stop worrying about its "moddability", nothing can be more moddable than OpenRA (well, except they opensource it, which is not likely to happen).

Oh, and don't forget to uninstall Origin.

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DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr
General


Joined: 16 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MadHQ wrote:
This kind of made my day.  Razz


I'm happy this is even being made in the first place. But here's the thing - C&C1/RA1 had really dated graphics. The terrain was bare bones, and half the units didn't always match their FMV counterpart or even sidebar icon. So I was actually hoping for redone units; I wanted to see the light tank to actually look like the M1 Bradley, the infantry to wear proper camo uniforms, etc.

Compare C&C Remastered to StarCraft Remastered. With SC R, there's a bigger difference between the original version and the remastered version. In the remaster, the units, buildings and terrain were upgraded substantially more so than they are with C&C. SC R even redid some units to make them aesthetically similar to their successor units in StarCraft 2. I'm under the impression C&C remastered is not as big a project as StarCraft Remastered was.
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr wrote:
With SC R, there's a bigger difference between the original version and the remastered version.
Starcraft Remaster from what i've seen actually aimed to be very close to the original.
In an interview they even talked about not having the original 3d models anymore and using a magnifier to take every tiny pixel into account. Like on the zergling which had only a single pixel for a claw, whereas the remaster has visibly distinguishable claws/fingers. But when zoomed out or minimized, the remaster would still come extremely close to the original.

And in comparison the original SC assets are bigger and thus have more details than the TD assets. e.g. a SpaceMarine is almost as big as a Nod light tank.
So there was a lot more to work with.
TD leaves a lot more for the imagination or in the case of a remaster to recreate.
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lazygecko
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This more or less has the same issues I have with every other remaster which rigidly sticks to the original visual framework as some kind of dogma. The thing about older game graphics is that there is a lot more abstraction going on in pretty much every element, giving the brain a lot of leeway to fill in the gaps. So when you take a really old game and only remake specific components of the visuals while leaving others exactly the way they were, the whole package in terms of fidelty becomes mismatched and makes it really weird for your brain to parse. So here you end up with everything looking super crisp, but it all just moves and behaves in a comparably very archaic manner.

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G-E
General


Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I echo everyone's underwhelming praise of the units/buildings, but to me the scaling of units sticks out a lot too, the Hummer fighting with a tank looks huge.

Also I'm not a fan of the arcade speed projectiles.

I really hope the terrain will get an entire rework, beyond the simplicity of the objects, it's the terrain that makes the game feel cheap. With more types of land and more transitions, along with more decorative grasses, the game would really pop, and you wouldn't focus so much on the simple units.
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djohe
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Joined: 07 May 2006
Location: Sweden, Gothenburg

PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The vehicle movement of atleast the Nod Buggy looks wrong. Also wtf at the position of the muzzle flash at 0:10 in the video, looks wrong.

Firing offset of the Medium Tanks looks wrong too (I know it is wrong in orignal artwork perspective and possibly even in orignal game) and they did not fix the bazooka prone firing offset (seen at 0:24).

I dislike the looks of the fire animations they look almost completly changed to me, they are brighter compared to C&C1/RA1 and looks like some flash game fire animation overlay because of it and does not appear to loop very good (one would think you would not need to loop fire animations in a remastered game but nop apparently they still do). Also the smoke animation loops like shit like usual (and I do not like the looks of it). Mad

They did not use the raised turret on the M270 MLRS when firing (GDI Rocket Launcher). It was an animation in orignal C&C1 that was unused that was partially fixed by Nyerguds in his unofficial patch that everyone uses nowdays (he just replaced the lowered turret with the raised one so it is always raised instead of always lowered)

The movement of the A10 Warthog looks wrong too but that is probably because they sticked to the rules (movement) of the orignal.

The color remappable parts on the buildings are brighter for NOD and more orange for almost everything GDI (not just buildings). Sad

The Medium Tank looks more orange compared to orignal game and the rest of the GDI stuff  Sad

Considering they wanted to stay true to the orignal I do not get why there is acceleration/deacceleration on stuff, should not be in C&C1/RA1 at all. Mad

The infantry animation does not look like it fits C&C to me and I miss orignal sound effects  Sad

Yes I am a perfectionist and I do not like many things showcased here except mabe the sandbags Laughing
G-E wrote:
Also I'm not a fan of the arcade speed projectiles.
I think the game speed or projectile speed was lowered so it is easier to see details in video, I am not a fan of it either.
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Damfoos
Grenadier


Joined: 27 Mar 2016

PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lazygecko wrote:
This more or less has the same issues I have with every other remaster which rigidly sticks to the original visual framework as some kind of dogma. The thing about older game graphics is that there is a lot more abstraction going on in pretty much every element, giving the brain a lot of leeway to fill in the gaps. So when you take a really old game and only remake specific components of the visuals while leaving others exactly the way they were, the whole package in terms of fidelty becomes mismatched and makes it really weird for your brain to parse. So here you end up with everything looking super crisp, but it all just moves and behaves in a comparably very archaic manner.


Can't agree more, just look at WCIII Reforged, its high-poly super cool realistic new models and its flat, overly bright terrain which looked super good within the overall toyish and low-poly style of the original, but looks oversaturated and empty for a more realistic and detailed approach. Then there are also attempts to port early 3D GTA titles to GTA 4 engine, which have super cool physics, lighting, shading, reflections, yet the entire city is a bunch of small low-poly boxes with 128x128 textures at best and is completely empty because the original couldn't afford having all the props like cables, trash cans, street signs etc in realistic amounts. In the end, part of the game looks realistic, and the rest looks cheap and bland, even if it looked good in the original (because everything looked just as bland back then).

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Reaperrr
Commander


Joined: 26 Apr 2003
Location: Somewhere in Germany

PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not as much of an improvement as I had hoped.

Then again, I'd generally have preferred a remake over a remaster, as long as they didn't go overboard on balance/gameplay changes.

Visually, the RA remake mock-up(?) screenshot gangster once posted (can't find it right now) has always been the benchmark of how I'd ideally wanted a remake/remaster of TD and RA to look like.

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Virgil
Rocket Infantry


Joined: 22 Jul 2018

PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something about the terrain:

Jim Vessella wrote:
I see several comments related to the terrain style, and can provide some context for that. The terrain is using the same system as the original games, meaning they're all little puzzle pieces stitched together. We actually had more detailed terrain in an early pass, but noticed the terrain ended up with these patterns and looked super tiled. We also found that the units weren't reading as well against the more detailed terrain. So with that data in hand, we chose the approach in the video to ensure the gameplay readability was improved, and terrain didn't end up with a patterned look. Hope this helps provide some insight.


I have no idea in modding TD or RA, so just put his words here and see if there is anyone who can give some help.

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Damfoos
Grenadier


Joined: 27 Mar 2016

PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TI uses tiled terrain system as well, and their TD terrain is more detailed than the original, yet it doesn't look patterned. Someone should show Jim this, as an example of how it can be done

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TAK02
General


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damfoos wrote:
TI uses tiled terrain system as well, and their TD terrain is more detailed than the original, yet it doesn't look patterned. Someone should show Jim this, as an example of how it can be done

Then Jim will probably ask: "Can we have the TMPs to analyse?"
Come to think of it, Mig Eater has some nice tiles to for D-Day last I checked his updates, so Jim could use Mig's help on that front too.

It's funny: the modding community, well at least a few select people, have worked their way around an old engine's limitations and made something truly beautiful, so much so that even full-time developers will have trouble impressing us.

Then again, it's because the community wasn't working full-time and wasn't being payed for their work that made their accomplishments so impressive.
It showed their dedication to the game/franchise they love.

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Mig Eater
Defense Minister


Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: Eindhoven

PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the remaster is moddable the first thing I'd want to do it add more detailed & varied terrain.
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Holy_Master
Commander


Joined: 21 Jul 2004
Location: Thailand

PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damfoos wrote:
TI uses tiled terrain system as well, and their TD terrain is more detailed than the original, yet it doesn't look patterned. Someone should show Jim this, as an example of how it can be done


Personally I didn't like TI grass tile that much while the mod graphic overall look stunning but for game play I found it quite over detail make it hard for me to distinguish unit on it specialize Nod unit which most (if not all) of them ??? dark color scheme that blend seamlessly with the ground.

but I'm agreed the tileset in Remastered also look too bland by modern standard but if their goal is to make 1:1 replica graphic then I didn't expect much.

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lazygecko
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Joined: 22 Sep 2019

PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Holy_Master wrote:
Damfoos wrote:
TI uses tiled terrain system as well, and their TD terrain is more detailed than the original, yet it doesn't look patterned. Someone should show Jim this, as an example of how it can be done


Personally I didn't like TI grass tile that much while the mod graphic overall look stunning but for game play I found it quite over detail make it hard for me to distinguish unit on it specialize Nod unit which most (if not all) of them ??? dark color scheme that blend seamlessly with the ground.

but I'm agreed the tileset in Remastered also look too bland by modern standard but if their goal is to make 1:1 replica graphic then I didn't expect much.


This is my feeling on TI's visuals overall as well. It looks technically very impressive, but it has a lot of readability issues. This goes for the terrain as well as the building designs where it's often hard to distinguish different building types from eachother and make out what they're for.

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Banshee
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Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a hard time to recognize Nod soldiers on TI's terrain as well. But it looks great indeed.

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Holy_Master
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Joined: 21 Jul 2004
Location: Thailand

PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For Remaster Instead of add graphic more detail on tileset they can simply try to play around with light/shading effect similar to how"Dawn of Tiberian age" mod utilize TS lighting. It's surprisingly spice up the game atmosphere and I like it a lot.


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TAK02
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Joined: 28 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That pic is a bad example because of how dark everything is.

Lighting is good and all, but DTA should brighten up a bit...
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raminator
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Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

so...to sum things up:

there's some people like myself, that are really excited about this game and its look and feel

and then

there's people that want a game that looks hyper realistic, with realistic physics, modern gameplay, etc. that has nothing in common with the original game but its name...
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PussyPus
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remember, this is a remaster, not a remake.
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

raminator wrote:
there's people that want a game that looks hyper realistic, with realistic physics, modern gameplay, etc. that has nothing in common with the original game but its name...

The old TD game had established in cameos, manual and FMVs what those units you see ingame should actually be like.

Thus I would have liked now graphics matching the FMVs/Cameos etc.

I think the tradeoff for new graphics needs to be made here because the old unit graphics were of such low detail and already very different to cameo, manual and FMVs, that it would be logical to now have the ingame units matching those.

It's also completely understandable why the old graphics were of such simple design, since a detailed unit model rendered in such a tiny scale would have only ended in a blob of random undiscernable pixels. So the simple graphics were preferable for that size.
But now with higher resolutions and more detail i don't think such issues still remain.


I would not like a modern, drastically changed gameplay or different physics.
The fact the tank bullets against infantry behave just like in old TD is awesome and should be definitely kept.
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OmegaBolt
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Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Location: York, England

PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like it for the most part. Wish it was slightly grittier, and don't really like the dark outline on stuff, but it's awesome they actually remade the explosions accurately etc. Love the cliff art too, really nice... makes me want to play it quite badly.
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Aro
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Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Location: Birmingham, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TAK02 wrote:
Then Jim will probably ask: "Can we have the TMPs to analyse?"


Yeah, that'd be the day.

Damfoos wrote:
TI uses tiled terrain system as well, and their TD terrain is more detailed than the original, yet it doesn't look patterned. Someone should show Jim this, as an example of how it can be done


While the praise is appreciated, what the others have echoed is likely the reason why this remaster and those working on it haven't upped the quality of terrain too much. Gameplay is the most important factor and if the visuals hinder that, then it's not a worthwhile sacrifice. I would like to highlight however that, personally, I never had a hard time distinguishing TI units from the terrain at high resolutions, but the amount of people that have brought it up is, most definitely, noteworthy. With that being said, I think that the terrain is certainly the weakest thing showcased so far, there is very little improvement or any added detail at all, with the exception of the cliffs from what I can tell. It leads me to believe that they are still using a fair amount of placeholder graphics. These guys most certainly have the ability to create realistic and high-quality terrain, but know better than to create something that could visually interfere with gameplay in some way or form.

I am just happy that there is going to be an official remaster of the games instead of mods that attempt to do so that end up having limitations of sorts due-to the ancient engines that host them. One of the sole reasons I hate going back to Red Alert 1 is because of the single unit build queue and how locating a specific unit or structure in the sidebar can be a chore (I don't care for it in TS either, RA2 perfected the sidebar). Yes, I am aware of OpenRA, but that's besides the point. From what I've seen, the remasters thus far fix these problems and include some updated visuals and music, it has me sold immediately and I'll definitely been jumping on the modding train again if we have the ability to do so. Improved terrain is definitely first on the agenda, though I probably wouldn't revise it 500 times like Mig Eater will. Very Happy

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Mechacaseal
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Joined: 29 Aug 2015

PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the bland terrain is like what they did with league of legends:




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Gangster
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Joined: 11 Jun 2004
Location: Moscow, Russia

PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like new trees, roads, tiberium, vehicles, infantry and buildings. But scaling , comparing each other is... well... uh very 1995ish
And why not improve image with things that not affect gameplay? Some variations for sandbags for example? Or pebbles for grassy terrain?


Also, why Nod colored orange?

Other than that I am very happy and pleased! Smile
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Mechacaseal
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Joined: 29 Aug 2015

PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Holy_Master wrote:
I assume instead of make new model they decide to photoshop each frame one by one instead which might explain why it's so slow to make XD.


It really does look like photoshop rather than 3d models. the angle and perspective of structures look wrong. At least we still have C&C rivals lol.

Last edited by Mechacaseal on Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:57 am; edited 1 time in total

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G-E
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Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
The old TD game had established in cameos, manual and FMVs what those units you see ingame should actually be like.

Thus I would have liked now graphics matching the FMVs/Cameos etc.

I think the tradeoff for new graphics needs to be made here because the old unit graphics were of such low detail and already very different to cameo, manual and FMVs, that it would be logical to now have the ingame units matching those.

Dune2 vs Dune2000 is a good example, a lot of units were re-made with the Dune movie art in mind, yet the literal transcripted ornithopters were probably more accurate in Dune2. The point is there is precedent for changing things in a remake/remaster.
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Houseplant
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Joined: 13 Aug 2014

PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the look of this. Can you switch between the classic and remastered modes with the push of a button?

What marketing strategy does EA have for this remaster?

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Banshee
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Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@HousePlant:

Classic and Remastered mode:

Jim Vessella wrote:
In addition to the authenticity, we’re excited to reveal an extra benefit of this 2D approach is that Petroglyph has been able to utilize their deep familiarity with the source code to enable the real-time switching of Legacy / Remastered graphics in Campaign missions. This means at any time when playing a Campaign mission, you can tap a single key to smoothly toggle between the original assets at 320 x 200, to the Remastered assets up to 3840 x 2160. Playing with this toggle over the past several months has been a true joy, and we believe will be one of your favorite features in the Remaster. Along with the real-time toggling, you’ll have the ability to zoom the camera to take in all the high definition detail, with an effective zoom distance between the DOS and C&C Gold camera heights.


Marketing strategy:

No idea.

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DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr
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Joined: 16 Feb 2005
Location: North America Posts: You cannot comprehend...

PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
from what i've seen they actually aimed to be very close to the original


I play the game all the time. They updated the Marines to look similar to the SC2 marines. Just look at the backpacks and shoulder pauldrons.

raminator wrote:
so...to sum things up:

there's some people like myself, that are really excited about this game and its look and feel

and then

there's people that want a game that looks hyper realistic, with realistic physics, modern gameplay, etc. that has nothing in common with the original game but its name...


lol don't over simplify things sunshine. We didn't say hyper realistic; having the tank projectiles actually look like 120mm shells isn't "hyper" realistic. Making the Light Tank look like a M1 Bradley has EVERYTHING in common with the original game. Modern gameplay yes please, I want to be able to que more than one unit at a time.

We are all happy this game is being made.
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raminator
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Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Location: Bierkasten

PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr wrote:
raminator wrote:
so...to sum things up:

there's some people like myself, that are really excited about this game and its look and feel

and then

there's people that want a game that looks hyper realistic, with realistic physics, modern gameplay, etc. that has nothing in common with the original game but its name...


lol don't over simplify things sunshine. We didn't say hyper realistic; having the tank projectiles actually look like 120mm shells isn't "hyper" realistic. Making the Light Tank look like a M1 Bradley has EVERYTHING in common with the original game. Modern gameplay yes please, I want to be able to que more than one unit at a time.

We are all happy this game is being made.


but it's alot more fun to watch the discussion if people get triggered by such a simplification ????
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr wrote:
Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
from what i've seen they actually aimed to be very close to the original


I play the game all the time. They updated the Marines to look similar to the SC2 marines. Just look at the backpacks and shoulder pauldrons.

and yet they managed to keep the shape, main remap locations, main similar colored unit parts and outline the same. Downscaled to original size, the remaster units, buildings and terrain would look almost exactly the same.
The huge difference you mentioned simply isn't there. They are updated graphics, not completely different graphics.

In case of TD the difference between a Bradley and a Nod tank is a lot bigger.
The same is true for those 8 pixel that shape an infantry in TD and these much bigger and more detailed infantry we see here. Though i think WW did a pretty good job on the infantry to keep at least the main shape pretty similar.

For a TD remaster there is a lot less to work with. The original graphics are too simple and too tiny to work well when just upscaled.
The result: Starcraft could maintain a high similarity for the remaster, for TD that doesn't work out that well.
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Matthias M.
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Joined: 15 Jun 2012
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reminds me of the RAHD project, which runs on the OpenRA engine: https://imgur.com/a/EmwjS

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Mechacaseal
AA Infantry


Joined: 29 Aug 2015

PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matthias M. wrote:
Reminds me of the RAHD project, which runs on the OpenRA engine: https://imgur.com/a/EmwjS


Those look like actual 3d models. EA's really does look like photoshop'd sprites.

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DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr
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Joined: 16 Feb 2005
Location: North America Posts: You cannot comprehend...

PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

raminator wrote:
but it's alot more fun to watch the discussion if people get triggered by such a simplification ????


lol that's not what you've done, you done goofed, so I corrected you. You're welcome.

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
and terrain[/b] would look almost exactly the same.
The huge difference you mentioned simply isn't there. They are updated graphics, not completely different graphics.

For a TD remaster there is a lot less to work with


The terrain has added details for sure, and the water has a new GFX. The game looks way batter on all fronts, that's the huge difference. Whatever they've done works perfectly, and they have updated the marine, he looks different from his original unit, especially his 3D render. Just play the game and see for yourself, you can't know until you've actually played it.

Since part of the same team that worked on SC Remastered was said to be working on TD Remastered I guess I was expecting the units to look more like their sidebar representations instead of the DOS artwork.
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